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Old 05-27-2010, 06:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bustaduke View Post



Yep, most people try and avoid the fact that blacks fought for the south and were proud to do it.

Colored Troops in the American Civil War

busta
The problem with your link is that it talks about black UNION troops...and it only mentions black confederate forces mustered in Richmond (as was discussed in previous posts) that never saw action.
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Old 05-27-2010, 10:20 AM
 
Location: The Plains
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I think there should be a distinction between serving and fighting in the Confederate Army. I always thought the timing of the Emancipation Proclamation was to weaken the Confederate Army since they had slaves doing much of the Grunt work it took carry out a war
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:17 PM
 
Location: The Plains
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http://www.37thtexas.org/html/BlkHist.html
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:52 AM
 
Location: A far, far better place
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
What utter nonsense!

The 1st Louisiana Native Guard was formed by Maj. Gen Benjamin F. Butler U.S. Army when he took control of New Orleans in September of 1862. The unit would indeed see combat at the siege of Port Hudson in May 1863.

The first would later be renamed the 73rd Regiment Infantry U.S. Colored Troops.
I did take the information for the Confederate 1st Louisiana Native Guard from a Wikipedia article. Since you dispute the existence of a Confederate 1st Louisiana Native Guard in 1861 (and frankly I don't blame you, I was intially surprised myself by the idea), and since I might be quoting from an incorrect source, I googled a little bit further.

While I did run into several sites of a decidely 'lost cause' flavor, I located one web page in particular that supports the Wikipedia article Gulf Islands National Seashore-Louisiana Native Guards .

The article supports your point that after capturing New Orleans the Union Army did raise several regiments of Louisiana Native Guards comprised of local black men. However, the beginning of the article does state that Louisiana did raise its own regiment of free blacks prior to the fall of New Orleans and the formation of the Union Native Guard regiments.

I also found this link America's Civil War: Louisiana Native Guards » HistoryNet which provides the following quote:

Quote:
When the Civil War broke out, a number of the prominent free blacks of New Orleans met to discuss their course of action, and decided that they should support the new Confederate government and volunteer for military service. At first, Confederate authorities lauded their offer, and their patriotism was praised in local newspapers. On March 2, 1861, a month before the firing on Fort Sumter, the Shreveport Daily News ran a story about 'a very large meeting of the free colored men of New Orleans' taking measures 'to form a military organization, and tendering their services to the Governor of Louisiana.'
Additionally, from a paper disputing the existence of black combat troops in the Confederate Army Retouching History provides the following:

Quote:
The actual 1st Louisiana Native Guards, consisting of Afro-Creoles, was formed of about 1,500 men in April 1861 and was formally accepted as part of the Louisiana militia in May 1862. The Native Guards unit (one of three all-black companies) never saw combat while in Confederate service, and was largely kept at arm’s length by city and state officials; in fact, it often lacked proper uniforms and equipment. “The Confederate authorities,” James Hollandsworth has written, “never intended to use black troops for any mission of real importance. If the Native Guards were good for anything, it was for public display; free blacks fighting for Southern rights made good copy for the newspapers.” The unit apparently was never committed to the Confederate cause, and appears to have disobeyed orders to evacuate New Orleans with other Confederate forces; instead it surrendered to Union troops in April 1862.
While this last link does cast doubt upon the dedication of the soldiers to the CSA, it does support the contention that the unit did exist.

As to whether the men of the original 1st Native Guard were willing to fight for the Confederacy, all I can state for certain is that Louisana didn't want them fighting at all.
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
Afro-Creoles
Herein, lies the problem with this revisionist history. Louisiana had a very complicated definition of who or who wasn't black, and creoles carried a very unique classification and legal status. To call them black when they weren't considered as such is a problem for you narrative.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:34 PM
 
Location: A far, far better place
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Herein, lies the problem with this revisionist history. Louisiana had a very complicated definition of who or who wasn't black, and creoles carried a very unique classification and legal status. To call them black when they weren't considered as such is a problem for you narrative.
Except it's not "revisionist history" that the unit actually existed, a point that you seem unwilling to concede.

Instead it appears that you have retreated into the position that the members of the 1st Louisiana Native Guard weren't "black enough" to qualify as African Americans.

So let us examine that word "créole". It orginally applied to the white French colonists born in New Orleans, as opposed to other people who immigrated to New Orleans from elsewhere. Later the term "French Creole" applied to white people of French ancestry who spoke French as their primary language and who practised Catholicism, while the term "créole" was used to describe free born African-Americans of mixed ancestry. But by 1861 most African-Americans were of varying degrees of mixed ancestry - the difference was that créoles had never been born into slavery.

In my admittedly brief research into this subject, I've come across mention of a book - "The Louisiana Native Guards: The Black Military Experience during the Civil War" by James G Hollandsworth, Jr. While the author is a Professor of Psychology at the University of Southern Mississippi, he also has a B.A. in History and has authored several published books on the Civil War. In an excerpt from his aforementioned book:

Quote:
Early in the Civil War, Louisiana's Confederate government sanctioned a militia unit of black troops, the Louisiana Native Guards. Intended as a response to demands from members of New Orleans' substantial free black population that they be permitted to participate in the defense of their state, the unit was used by Confederate authorities for public display and propaganda purposes but was not allowed to fight.

After the fall of New Orleans, General Benjamin F. Butler brought the Native Guards into Federal military service and increased their numbers with runaway slaves. He intended to use the troops for guard duty and heavy labor. His successor, Nathaniel P. Banks, did not trust the black Native Guards officers, and as he replaced them with white commanders, the mistreatment and misuse of the black troops steadily increased.
Which is slightly at odds with what you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
The 1st Louisiana Native Guard was formed by Maj. Gen Benjamin F. Butler U.S. Army when he took control of New Orleans in September of 1862. The unit would indeed see combat at the siege of Port Hudson in May 1863.

The first would later be renamed the 73rd Regiment Infantry U.S. Colored Troops.
Now can you please explain to me how as a Confederate militia regiment the 1st Louisiana Native Guard wasn't a unit of African-Americans, but as a Union regiment it was a unit of African-Americans?
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
Now can you please explain to me how as a Confederate militia regiment the 1st Louisiana Native Guard wasn't a unit of African-Americans, but as a Union regiment it was a unit of African-Americans?
I think that there is something for both of our positions contain in Benjamin Butler's autobiography starting at the last paragraph on page 491.

Autobiography and personal ... - Google Books
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Old 06-05-2010, 08:16 PM
 
Location: The Plains
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Wasn't the Louisiana Native Guards the "corps de Afriques?"
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:06 PM
 
Location: A far, far better place
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I think that there is something for both of our positions contain in Benjamin Butler's autobiography starting at the last paragraph on page 491.

Autobiography and personal ... - Google Books
I tend to take autobiographies with a grain of salt. Winston Churchill's memoirs taught me that.

According to Butler's autobiography, he did enlist the aid of former black line officers of the Confederate Louisiana Native Guard in order to form the Union 1st Lousiana Native Guard.

I've also stumbled across "Thank God my regiment an African one: the Civil War diary of Nathan W.Daniels", written by Nathan W. Daniels, a Union colonel in charge of the 2nd Regiment of the Union Louisiana Native Guard and edited, expanded upon and published by historian C. P. Weaver. You can read the book on the Amazon.com site (Amazon.com: Thank God My Regiment an African One: The Civil War Diary of Colonel…).

On pages 4 and 5 Weaver describes the Confederate 1st Louisiana Native Guard quite succinctly, detailing their motivations:

Quote:
The free blacks joined the Confederate cause more to protect their families, personal property, and existing rights than for any particular allegience. In fact, they stated later that had they not volunteered, they would have been forced into service by the authorities.
On Page 10, Weaver recounts that TWO meetings between General Butler and some of the officers of the Confederate Native Guard occured. It was at the second meeting on August 15th the former Confederate officers stated that they "would now support the Union and felt that a number of the enlisted men would follow their example."

On Page 11 Weaver states that

Quote:
Butler issued General Order No. 63 on August 22, 1862, allowing the former Confederate Native Guard Militia to enter Federal service.
and later on Page 11

Quote:
The 1st Regiment of the Louisiana Native Guard Volunteers filled in ten days with 1,000 men and mustered September 27, 1862. It was made up primarly of light-skinned free men of color, many from the Confederate Militia.
Regarding the black line officers who "transferred" from the Confederate to the Union regiments, on page 11 Weaver says that "only eleven of the men had held earlier commissions".

So apparently, many of the men of the 1st Regiment of the Union Louisiana Native Guards were drawn from the Confederate Louisiana Native Guards, but only ten of the line officers (out of a possible 36) made the transition. It wasn't a whole-sale transfer of the entire unit, but rather a large portion of disbanded militia who re-formed into the Union 1st Regiment.

There were also the 2nd and 3rd Regiments of the Louisiana Native Guard, but these were increasingly filled with freed slaves and not free born blacks.
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:32 PM
 
Location: A far, far better place
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
Wasn't the Louisiana Native Guards the "corps de Afriques?"
The time line appears to be:

April 1861 - formation of the Louisiana Native Guard (CSA Militia) in New Orleans. Created by the Confederate state government of Louisiana.

February 1862 - Louisiana Native Guard disbanded by the Confederate state government of Louisiana.

September 1862 - 1st Regiment Louisiana Native Guard (Union) formed in New Orleans, later joined by the 2nd and 3rd Regiments Louisiana Native guard. Units created by order of General Benjamin F. Butler.

June 1863 - 1st, 2nd and 3rd Regiments Louisiana Native Guard renamed 1st, 2nd and 3rd Regiments Corps d'Afrique by General Nathaniel P. Banks.

April 1864 - The Corps d'Afrique dissolved, its members joining the newly organized 73rd and 74th Regiments of the United States Colored Troops.
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