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Old 07-22-2017, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
5,466 posts, read 3,048,968 times
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A nice idea, naively implemented and soon bogged down in layers of bureaucracy.
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Old 07-23-2017, 07:23 AM
 
8 posts, read 20,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blktoptrvl View Post
I don't know how honest the Kayak community is. I would imagine as honest as the general pop.

That said, I would paint the kayak in a color and paint that is hard to remove.

Also, you want to get a liability wavier... Are the kayaks going to be in a area where anyone on the property can just grab and use them? If this is the case, how will you keep anyone from using them without first signing the wavier? If they are not out in a public area, you or someone else will have to be there to sign them out and get the wavier at that point.
The kayaks are on a rack and each is locked. They never get used though.
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Old 07-23-2017, 07:25 AM
 
8 posts, read 20,325 times
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Well thank you for all of the ideas. I like the nonprofit idea. Interested parties are meeting soon so I'm eager to see what they think of all the work ahead.
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
24,332 posts, read 17,065,160 times
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I think it sounds like a great idea but then I put on my attorney hat and boy are you opening up yourself and the condo association to litigation.
I don't care how iron clad a waiver /disclaimer is if someone gets hurt or killed they/survivors will sue and chances are there will be a settlement out of court and that will be the end of your kayak sharing plans and will probably result in the condo association putting the lake off limits to everyone.

If you do move ahead think about getting the open type kayaks where people sit on top. There is little danger of being trapped inside if it tips over. Life vests are the most important things to have.

Your idea is noble, to give everyone access to the lake but it is fraught with problems in the real world from getting sued for a injury or death, theft, vandalism, broken/lost equipment, collecting fees and keeping track of everyone that has or has not paid. It seems more trouble then it is worth.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,707 posts, read 79,581,771 times
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First create an LLC. The LLC will own and run the kayak share. For added protection, put someone with no assets on the LLC, or have the LLC made up of two corporations form some other state, which in turn are each owned by an LLC from another state. It is not terribly hard to set up a liability shield. Maintaining it is different however if you precisely follow your lawyers instructions it will give you some level of protection. Second buy insurance usually you will need $1 million General liability to support a $5 - 10 million umbrella. You may also have to buy specific kayak insurance like for a car. I am not sure about that. Add the insurance premium to the cost of the share participation. May as well have everyone (including guests) who use the kayaks sign a waiver. Not worth much, but it cannot hurt. Set up a website to reserve kayaks and check them out. That way you do not have fights when multiple people want to use them at once. Set a time limit for each member and a limit to the number of times in a month they can take them.

You will still have problems on nice weekends when everyone wants the kayaks at the same time.


Bathtub Kayaks cost about $300 - $350. A good Kayak usually starts around $1500. Unless you are on an ocean or great like or other rough water, bath tubs should be fine. I have done 3 night camping trips in them and they were fine. Burn a phone number into the the hull to discourage theft (not your number, the LLC's phone number). It is not a great idea to get some of each. The reason is a bathtub kayak is not gong to be able to keep up with a good kayak. Not even close.

Have a combination lock on the Kayaks. Get locks that the combination can be changed regularly. When someone makes a reservation, they get the combination for that day. If it gets windy, lock them down so no one can take one.

Make arrangements with someone who has a sturdy power boat (Preferably a Boston Whaler), to retrieve the kayaks when they get blown away, capsize, a paddle breaks, etc.

Buy and maintain life jackets of different sizes. Make a rule anyone in a kayak no wearing a life jacket is kicked out - no refunds.

If you live on/near an ocean or great lake, then you will want sea kayaks (pushing $4000). You can find them cheaper, especially used. You might want to get doubles.

IN general, people do not like double Kayaks. each person prefers to control their own boat. However there will be some who want to double up (couples, people with young kids). For 30 people, I would get 4-6 single bathtub s and 2 doubles. You will need at least 20 life jackets to cover all the sizes you are likely to need. We buy them at yard sales, then test them. You could require they bring their own life jackets, but they wont. Then they will drown and sue. Your LLC may also have trouble getting insurance if you do not have life jackets available.

It will not be cheap. Figure $5,000 for kayaks, life jackets and paddles. $1500 for an LLC plus legal fees if you use a lawyer (you do not have to, but they can give you some good advice). A shed will run about $3000 more to get something sturdy that will hold everything (you also need some land. Maybe the Condo association will give the LLC a 99 year lease on some property). Insurance will be monthly or yearly. Website may cost $200/a year I would guess. The LLC may also need to maintain a business license of some sort. You can probably set it up for $10,000 - $12,000.

Think through everything you can that may cause conflict among members and set up some rules (cleaning the Kayaks after use, damage repair, failing to return them on time. Lay out as through a set of rules/agreement as you can, then set up a board to resolve dispute by/among members. You will need to find someone to be webmaster, someone to maintain the Kayaks, someoen to handle the administrative aspects (buying insurance, keeping the books, etc.

After the initial outlay, there will be ongoing maintenance costs. For future members you should probably allow people to sell their interest. Also figure out when you will add kayaks and members.

If it works well, you can eventually add other boats. Maybe a rowing shell. This is how boat clubs got started.


Another option is oyu cna just join a boat club. They already exist.
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Old 07-30-2017, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
2,606 posts, read 2,166,168 times
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I have two Old Town, recreational kayaks and one other brand sit on top. They are not for your serious kayakers, just for fun. They are under 10' and non motorized (of course), so the DNR, at least in MN, doesn't require them to be registered, none of mine have id/hull numbers. I got the sit on top so the kid can tip it over for fun. They did it with the sit in one's, a real pain to empty water. The sit on top ones don't glide as well but they are just for fun. You can pick up some up to start your collection pretty inexpensively from Craigslist.

No matter what always wear a life jacket.
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