Man with rifle @ Obama Rally (exercise, rifles, cheap, reading)

[simetime]

Originally Posted by Tin Knocker

this has nothing to do with who is the President or whether black or white people support him.
Its about portraying gun owners as white redneck hillbillies. Thats patently false. I work at a local range & while white people often make up the biggest SINGLE racial group we see dozens of black people, asians, middle eastern, ect. Americans carry & shoot guns & Americans come in all shapes, colors & sizes.

The reason its a big deal is simply because they chose to portray things as they want them to be instead of as they are. They apparently want the public to believe that gun owners are ignorant racist neanderthals. Thankfully the absurdity of that is obvious to most people not already delusional or acting out an agenda.

Your thought process was laid bare when you asked how we would feel if it were a bunch of middle eastern people armed at a rally. Personally I dont see why that would matter. I'd like it if people from all walks of life & races were more aware of & excercised their rights and I'm proud to be involved in making that a reality.

Get out to a public range, meet some real life shooters, you might just get a pleasant surprise.


But back on topic, IMO the MOST noteworthy thing they could have reported was that the gun carrying group was racially diverse, that there was an interview with a Black Man carrying a gun dispelling the myth that its a white thing. To not only ignore him, but go further & make remarks about a group of armed white people as if he simply did not exist makes a mockery of their audience.

IMO people of ANY race should carry ANYPLACE they choose. Given todays political climate I personally wouldn't have done what he did openly. But I believe thats a flaw in our system. We need to make it clear that carrying a gun in this country is as legal anywhere as talking or saying a prayer.

Its violent actions that need attention & prevention. Not simply posessing something thats perfectly legal & safe.

They did it to send a message & once again the libtard media got it wrong.

Actually, race is a subversive reason why many protestors are carrying guns...rather you want to beleive it or not. If you really want to prove your point, show me a president that has had as many death threats BEFORE his was president and when was the last time that a president had a town meeting were citizens decided to bring guns? As much as Bush was hated by many NO ONE dared bring a gun anywhere near him..heck people were removed just for disagreeding with him. coindence? I don't think so. Before some of you right wing nut cases claim that I'm race baiting, consider this: there has been a resurgence in hate group membership with promises of upcoming race war. Now, you can chose to ignore the obvious but I for one will keep my head on a swivel.

[Robert_J]

Originally Posted by simetime

Actually, race is a subversive reason why many protestors are carrying guns...rather you want to beleive it or not.

I choose not to believe it. I don't dislike Obama personally. I dislike the entire upper echelon of the administration because of their policies and ideology. It has nothing to do with race, religion or ethnic heritage.

Originally Posted by simetime

If you really want to prove your point, show me a president that has had as many death threats BEFORE his was president

When was there such a liberal candidate before? His record in IL and Congress was proof enough that he was polar opposite of what I believe in. Do I agree with the threats? No. These people should have put their energy into campaigning against him.

Originally Posted by simetime

when was the last time that a president had a town meeting were citizens decided to bring guns?

First, the man with the AR-15 wasn't in the town hall meeting. He was in a public area NEAR the location of the meeting. Second, when have we had an administration that was so anti-gun? The last time we did nothing there was a ban on a class of weapons.

Originally Posted by simetime

As much as Bush was hated by many NO ONE dared bring a gun anywhere near him..

No one dares bring a gun near Obama either.

Originally Posted by simetime

heck people were removed just for disagreeding with him.

I'd rather be removed than get a beat-down for disagreeing with the current administration.

YouTube - Obama Thugs Punch Twice As Hard Pt. II

Originally Posted by simetime

right wing nut cases

Can any liberal have a discussion without going into name calling?

Originally Posted by simetime

there has been a resurgence in hate group membership

I think the .gov labeled returning veterans and people who believe in the Constitution as a threat. If you listen to members of Congress, anyone who disagrees with the current issues is part of a hate group.

YouTube - Nazi Pelosi claims Health Care Protesters are carrying SWASTIKAS to Town Hall meetings

Originally Posted by simetime

upcoming race war.

If it does come to violence, it won't be about race. But I think we are a long way from that point also. Conservatives don't really care about race. Reverend Manning is the official pastor of what the .gov considers a 'hate group'.

YouTube - Honored to be Right Wing Extreme

Originally Posted by simetime

Now, you can chose to ignore the obvious but I for one will keep my head on a swivel.

I checked an PA is an open carry state. I do know that some of the larger metro areas do have very restrictive gun laws though. Open carry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-Robert

[simetime]

Originally Posted by Robert_J

I choose not to believe it. I don't dislike Obama personally. I dislike the entire upper echelon of the administration because of their policies and ideology. It has nothing to do with race, religion or ethnic heritage.

When was there such a liberal candidate before? His record in IL and Congress was proof enough that he was polar opposite of what I believe in. Do I agree with the threats? No. These people should have put their energy into campaigning against him.

First, the man with the AR-15 wasn't in the town hall meeting. He was in a public area NEAR the location of the meeting. Second, when have we had an administration that was so anti-gun? The last time we did nothing there was a ban on a class of weapons.

No one dares bring a gun near Obama either.

I'd rather be removed than get a beat-down for disagreeing with the current administration.

YouTube - Obama Thugs Punch Twice As Hard Pt. II

Can any liberal have a discussion without going into name calling?

I think the .gov labeled returning veterans and people who believe in the Constitution as a threat. If you listen to members of Congress, anyone who disagrees with the current issues is part of a hate group.

YouTube - Nazi Pelosi claims Health Care Protesters are carrying SWASTIKAS to Town Hall meetings

If it does come to violence, it won't be about race. But I think we are a long way from that point also. Conservatives don't really care about race. Reverend Manning is the official pastor of what the .gov considers a 'hate group'.

YouTube - Honored to be Right Wing Extreme

I checked an PA is an open carry state. I do know that some of the larger metro areas do have very restrictive gun laws though. Open carry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-Robert

Like I SAID before, you can only speak for yourself regarding your disagreement with Obamas policies, but you cannot speak for the many hate groups out there or even deniy that they exist.

Irregardless of his policies when has there been a president who had to deal with people carrying guns PERIOD! especially for something that has nothing to do with gun rights.

Obama is not anti-gun please provide the information that states that he is anti-gun.

Right wingnuts tend to fit the description that I use b/c they cannot possibly see any other solution except their own. Unfortunately from your comment regarding race, you either refuse to see anything but what you want to see or you are living in the Twillight Zone. I will agreed with you on one thing regarding the tough gun laws here in Pa. There is a reason for it, the large murder rates and the reputation of having one of the largest number of hate groups in the country.

[Tin Knocker]

Originally Posted by simetime

Actually, race is a subversive reason why many protestors are carrying guns...rather you want to beleive it or not. If you really want to prove your point, show me a president that has had as many death threats BEFORE his was president and when was the last time that a president had a town meeting were citizens decided to bring guns? As much as Bush was hated by many NO ONE dared bring a gun anywhere near him..heck people were removed just for disagreeding with him. coindence? I don't think so. Before some of you right wing nut cases claim that I'm race baiting, consider this: there has been a resurgence in hate group membership with promises of upcoming race war. Now, you can chose to ignore the obvious but I for one will keep my head on a swivel.

You a mind reader, or just expressing your opinion?

The reason this was done to Obama & not Bush isn't because of race, wether you believe it or not.. Its because this President has an anti gun reputation, very well deserved imo. He was a senator in one of the ONLY states that REFUSE to let their citizens carry guns & is on record as opposing personal carrying of firearms. His life is more important than the other 300,000,000 of us though & worthy of protecting with dozens of them. I'm quite certain people carried guns to every presidents public events. The difference is that they carried openly to make a statement & that statement was not race related.

The racial aspects are an entirely different issue & not unexpected to people with their eyes open. Right or wrong the election of the first black man to presidency is going to outrage people with racial issues, its to be expected. Just as its to be expected that those predisposed to anti white sentiment will find a kkk member in every shadow. In case you didn't notice, in AZ there was at least one black man with a gun.
Seems like it was a bi-partisan statement to me & harmed noone in any event. Obama ought to save us some money, lay off the secret service & utilize free armed citizens for security.

I dont need to ignore or worry over it. People peacefully excercising civil rights doesn't bother me.

[Tin Knocker]

Originally Posted by simetime

Like I SAID before, you can only speak for yourself regarding your disagreement with Obamas policies, but you cannot speak for the many hate groups out there or even deniy that they exist.

Nobody denies they exist. Except maybe you if you think they are all anti black.

Irregardless of his policies when has there been a president who had to deal with people carrying guns PERIOD! especially for something that has nothing to do with gun rights.

People in the US have ALWAYS carried guns.

Obama is not anti-gun please provide the information that states that he is anti-gun.

Wow, do you know anything about him? I know its hard because he has such a short career but if you are going to debate his stance of firearms you should have a clue.
From wikki,

Political positions of Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gun policy

As a state legislator in Illinois, Obama supported banning the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic firearms, increasing state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms and requiring manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.[265]
In 1996, during Obama's run for the Illinois State Senate, he was surveyed by a Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois about criminal justice and other issues. Obama's questionnaire showed that he supported a ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns. Subsequently, Obama denied that his writing was on the document and said that he never favored a ban on the sale and possession of handguns.[266][267][268] In 1999, he urged prohibiting the operation of any gun store within five miles of a school or park, which according to gun-rights advocates would eliminate gun stores from most of the inhabited portion of the United States.[269] He sponsored a bill in 2000 limiting handgun purchases to one per month.
As state senator, he voted against a 2004 measure that allowed self-defense as an affirmative defense for those charged with violating local laws making it otherwise unlawful for such persons to possess firearms.[270] He also voted against allowing persons who had obtained domestic violence protective orders to carry handguns for their protection.[269]
From 1994 through 2002, Obama was a board member of the Joyce Foundation, which amongst other non-gun related activities provides funds for gun control organizations in the United States.[271][272]
While in the U.S. Senate, Obama has supported several gun control measures, including restricting the purchase of firearms at gun shows and the reauthorization of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[273] Obama voted against legislation protecting firearm manufacturers from certain liability suits, which gun-rights advocates say are designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.[274] Obama did vote in favor of the 2006 Vitter Amendment to prohibit the confiscation of lawful firearms during an emergency or major disaster, which passed 84-16.[275]
During a February 15, 2008 press conference, Obama stated, "I think there is an individual right to bear arms, but it's subject to commonsense regulation."[276] Obama has also stated his opposition to allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms[277] and supports a national law outlawing the practice,[278][279] saying on Chicago Public Radio in 2004 "I continue to support a ban on concealed carry laws".[280]
Obama initially voiced support of Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban. Following the Supreme Court decision that the ban was unconstitutional, he revised his position in support of the decision overturning the law, saying, "Today's decision reinforces that if we act responsibly, we can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe."[281] He also said, in response to the ruling, "I have always believed that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to bear arms... The Supreme Court has now endorsed that view."[282]
After being elected as President, Obama announced that he favors measures that respect Second Amendment rights, while at the same time keeping guns away from children and criminals. He further stated that he supports banning private transfers of firearms at gun shows (referred to as "closing the gun show loophole"), "making guns in this country childproof", and permanently reinstating the expired Assault Weapons Ban.[2

83]


A little more,

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

[SIZE=5] Barack Obama on Gun Control [/SIZE] [SIZE=2] Click here for 13 full quotes on Gun Control OR other candidates on Gun Control OR background on Gun Control. [/SIZE]

• Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions. (Aug 2008)
• Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
• FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
• April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist. (Apr 2008)
• Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
• Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
• 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
• Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
• Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
• Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
• Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
• Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
• Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

So, he supports sueing manufacturers for the actions of criminals. But only regarding guns. You cant sue GM even though its products are used in and enable many more crime than guns.

He thinks we should reinstate the assault weapons ban even though it had zero effect, other than denying Americans a civil right.

He wants to ban semi autos & create more restrictions.

He endorsed the Illinois handgun ban.

Concealed carry is ok for retired cops he says, but not regular citizens.
Hmm, I thought a retired anything was just a normal citizen.

He thinks its possible to respect the 2nd amendment while allowing municipal & state bans.

He wants to keep guns out of major cities even though thats where people often need them most.

Right wingnuts tend to fit the description that I use b/c they cannot possibly see any other solution except their own. Unfortunately from your comment regarding race, you either refuse to see anything but what you want to see or you are living in the Twillight Zone. I will agreed with you on one thing regarding the tough gun laws here in Pa. There is a reason for it, the large murder rates and the reputation of having one of the largest number of hate groups in the country.

PA doesn't have tough gun laws.

Why would you support disarming people if they live in a place with high murder rates & alot of hate groups? the only result is to create a safe working environment for them. Unless you think that hate groups & murderers will toss their weapons because its against the law.

I'd suggest its not Robert in the twilight zone.

[Robert_J]

Originally Posted by simetime

Like I SAID before, you can only speak for yourself regarding your disagreement with Obamas policies, but you cannot speak for the many hate groups out there or even deniy that they exist.

I don't deny there are hate groups of all types. No race, religion nor citizen of a country is immune from being hated by some group. But lately it doesn't take much to be put on a .gov watch list -
Homeland security chief apologizes to veterans groups - CNN.com

Originally Posted by simetime

Irregardless of his policies when has there been a president who had to deal with people carrying guns PERIOD! especially for something that has nothing to do with gun rights.

Obama is not anti-gun please provide the information that states that he is anti-gun.

The president did not have to deal with the gun carrying subject of this discussion. He was legally carrying his guns. Local police did monitor him but did nothing because he broke no state or federal laws.

Thanks, Tin Knocker for saving me a LOT of research time.

Originally Posted by simetime

Right wingnuts tend to fit the description that I use b/c they cannot possibly see any other solution except their own. Unfortunately from your comment regarding race, you either refuse to see anything but what you want to see or you are living in the Twillight Zone.

First, I still see no legal problem with what the man with the AR-15 was doing. It was an extreme way to protest or stir up discussion of the 2nd Amendment and it worked. The media picked up the story. We are discussing it here. There are a lot of groups who do similar extreme protests and they ususally get their little bit of media coverage as well.

I know there are issues of too much gun crime. Well, there's too much crime period. I'm all for solutions as long as they don't go against the Constitution. Even though it is only a paraphrase from Ben Franklin, I still believe in the quote "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."

-Robert

[Icy Tea]

It was staged. The guy was a libertarian who was asked to show up by another libertarian radio talk show host. But many alleged incidents are being staged and done to make the other side look bad. There are crazies, real crazies, on both sides of the issue. And just plain old crooks running scams for personal gain.
Both parties need to be dismantled, straightened out and term limits enacted as well as the entire government needing to be cleaned up.

[stillkit]

Let's face the reality, folks. Those who would do the President of the United States harm don't have a big, neon sign on their heads which says, "Danger!" They look just like normal folks, so how can anyone know which gun carrier would, or would not, shoot Obama? Or, anyone else for that matter.

[Tin Knocker]

Originally Posted by stillkit

Let's face the reality, folks. Those who would do the President of the United States harm don't have a big, neon sign on their heads which says, "Danger!" They look just like normal folks, so how can anyone know which gun carrier would, or would not, shoot Obama? Or, anyone else for that matter.

Ummm, lets face reality folks, these guys are, for all intents & purposes carrying a big neon sign.
Theres a snowballs chance in hell that they could get close enough to the man to do him harm while openly carrying a gun.

There are many alarmist & sensationalist folks out there who blow things all out of proportion. Why someone would choose to do so is beyond me.

I'm headed to NH for a few days to do some pre season scouting for bear, another place where open carry is perfectly legal & a man peacefully carried at a recent political gathering.
One of the few places left that actually trusts its people.

You guys have fun!

[Boompa]

But the fact reamains that Both the guy in New Hampshire and the guy with the AR-15 in Phoenix are members of We the People, a militant group seeking an armed confrontation with the Federal Authorities. So when the shooting starts where do you stand