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Old 04-16-2012, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Back in the Southland
1,054 posts, read 1,549,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
I can't see how that is going to bring in more fans.

What an embarrassment. That whole series has been a major disappointment.
Not for me I despise the Penguins, and watching the beloved Flyers destroy them has been a wonderful thing.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 1,653,555 times
Reputation: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
Fighting, hitting, and checking are now banned from the game?

The sport doesn't need the fighting. It is stupid, outdated, as well as barbaric. And it also slows down the game. A ban is way overdue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
I can't see how that is going to bring in more fans.

What an embarrassment. That whole series has been a major disappointment.
One of the major reasons players fight is as a way of self policing - It's used as a way to discourage dirty or unsportsmanlike play that is either technically legal or difficult for officials to police.

Some fights right off a whistle, even, are for this purpose - in retaliation for an earlier play where no immediate redress was available, or to signal that no such play will be tolerated in the future.

Once that aspect of the game is understood, your arguments run completely counter to each other. You're disappointed in the ugly, unsportsmanlike play in the Flyers-Penguins series, yet would prefer to ban what's traditionally been the most effective way of curbing it.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:12 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
8,961 posts, read 6,498,214 times
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^^^^^

I really hate using the word "tradition" as a reason for not changing a wrong. I could point out other "traditions" throughout history that are and have been grossly outdated (and fixed in many cases) but I'd be way off topic.

Leave the effective ways of curbing violence to the officials. That is what they are paid for. If they can't do it there are plenty of others waiting in the wings to get their shot at officiating a game at the NHL level.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 1,653,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
^^^^^

I really hate using the word "tradition" as a reason for not changing a wrong. I could point out other "traditions" throughout history that are and have been grossly outdated (and fixed in many cases) but I'd be way off topic.

Leave the effective ways of curbing violence to the officials. That is what they are paid for. If they can't do it there are plenty of others waiting in the wings to get their shot at officiating a game at the NHL level.
I didn't argue that it should be kept in for "tradition's sake". What I said was that, in the past, officiating and rule changes have been less effective than fighting as a means of curbing unsportsmanlike play.

And there's a reason for that.

Officials, no matter how good, can't see everything that happens on the ice. And, even if they could, or if video reviews were done and illegal play punished later, there are things that happen that aren't exactly illegal that aren't exactly above board, either.

Players will target specific opponents for abuse (though not necessarily illegal play) in an effort to throw them off their game. That's the principal reason teams carry an enforcer - as someone to protect their stars from this type of singling out and bullying.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
8,961 posts, read 6,498,214 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubblejumper View Post
I didn't argue that it should be kept in for "tradition's sake". What I said was that, in the past, officiating and rule changes have been less effective than fighting as a means of curbing unsportsmanlike play.

And there's a reason for that.

Officials, no matter how good, can't see everything that happens on the ice. And, even if they could, or if video reviews were done and illegal play punished later, there are things that happen that aren't exactly illegal that aren't exactly above board, either.

Players will target specific opponents for abuse (though not necessarily illegal play) in an effort to throw them off their game. That's the principal reason teams carry an enforcer - as someone to protect their stars from this type of singling out and bullying.
You mean some teams.

The Washington Capitals do not have one and I don't think they are in the minority.

A paid goon with no skills is a thing of the past - at least in most cases.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 1,653,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
You mean some teams.

The Washington Capitals do not have one and I don't think they are in the minority.

A paid goon with no skills is a thing of the past - at least in most cases.
I agree that the 70's or 80's style enforcer who can hardly skate is a thing of the past. There's just no room on a team for someone without other talents.

However, you're deluding yourself if you think the Capitals don't have fighters on the team.

Matt Henrdricks was in 11 fights this year, while in a Capitals uniform. That's not a huge number, but it's enough to put him in the ranks of regular fighters. Troy Brouwer, Jason Chimera, John Erskine and Brooks Laich were also involved in multiple fights this year, as well.

You're mistaking being an enforcer with being unable to play any other role on a team. There are a lot of guys around the league (Hendricks being one) who will stick up for teammates, and can still contribute to the game itself.
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:09 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
8,961 posts, read 6,498,214 times
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I didn't say they didn't have have anyone on the team that wouldn't frop the gloves.
That is insulting that I said otherwise. I watch almost every game and I attended about 15 games this season so I can see that.

They haven't had a real "enforcer" since Donald Brashear.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 1,653,555 times
Reputation: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
I didn't say they didn't have have anyone on the team that wouldn't frop the gloves.
That is insulting that I said otherwise. I watch almost every game and I attended about 15 games this season so I can see that.

They haven't had a real "enforcer" since Donald Brashear.
You're still not getting what I'm saying - an "enforcer" can have other skills and play other roles on the team, as well. We're not talking about 80's style goons here. We're talking about a player who fights on behalf of teammates.

Hendricks fought 4 or 5 times as often as anyone else on the team - He's playing that role, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.
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