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Old 07-11-2010, 07:17 PM
 
2,443 posts, read 3,390,885 times
Reputation: 1800
Default JUst the Same as Refacing

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Yea I agree the picture is too small. Thanks for thinking of me anyway. You sure you want my answer? You know how I feel about painting or refacing. I wonder if you had a bad experience with some contractor somewhere that prompts your not wanting to go through any involved kitchen makeover.

Many people say their old kitchen is still nice except for the color. That's their way of saying they can't afford new cabinets or they are just afraid for various reasons.

Pickled oak? Eeeks. That's aweful. There was a time when it was all the rage. Many people say it look pink.

What's your budget? How much time do you have? What's your time worth?

Lets try this: Is your cabinets a brand name or homemade? Being pickled oak I bet it's a major manufacturer. Now, locate your local dealer that sells that product line. With this you would be able to order JUST doors and drawer faces of your choice of color, style and wood species.

Now you want to order what's called BEPs and WEPs which are thin skins that will go on your exposed ends (bases and walls) to match whatever color doors and drawer faces you choose. These will be cut to size already. Now you buy the same thin skins called something like TS or BTS which are toe skins to go over the toe kick.

All you have left is the face frame. This you can either paint or reface with more pre colored skins or sand and buy the matching color stain from that cabinet manufacture which of course will match the color doors and drawer faces you choose.

If you have crown molding you can buy that to match too and just toss the old.

Another alternative is to buy full overlay doors which will cover the entire face. This way if you do take the easy way out and paint the face frames....well it will be all covered up by the full overlay doors. You will have to buy the correct hinges for this. Normal overlay is half inch but hinges for full overlay would be about 1.25" overlay.

Hope that helps..........
Uh, you are always saying NOT to reface, yet this advice certainly sounds like refacing!!!
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Somewhere, out there
2,156 posts, read 2,456,282 times
Reputation: 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmomof2 View Post
Aw, yeah, that's rough. We gutted the kitchen of our current house...looks like yours needs to be done from scratch too! The Gardenweb Kitchen Forum has tons of great ideas and inspiration pics. Good luck!
Oh, trust me, I'm all over the GW website as well as many others.

Not to hijack your thread, but wanted to respond about our kitchen.

Actually, I'm trying to work with what I have, going to try and restain the cabinets, they're in very good, sound condition. If staining current color doesn't work, will try a darker stain, then paint, if nothing else looks good - GUT JOB. I plan on trying everything else first, including replacing floors, countertops, painting, appliances (no dw in there now) We are empty nesters and aren't fancy people, nor am I a follower who has to have the latest and greatest. I can't see getting rid of solid wood cabinets to replace them with some MDF crap. I've actually been seeing some more of this type of molding lately. If I have to gut, I've found a great idea. It's not like it's totally out of the question, I'd just love to find someone who knows how to work with the cabinets that are in there, someone with vision and great ideas - it's so easy to come up with ideas when you gut out a kitchen and start with a blank slate. To me, it takes someone very special to be able to work with what you have - but I've yet to find that person

This is something I'd consider upon having to try and paint
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,427 posts, read 29,188,090 times
Reputation: 9600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldemila View Post
Oh, trust me, I'm all over the GW website as well as many others.

Not to hijack your thread, but wanted to respond about our kitchen.

Actually, I'm trying to work with what I have, going to try and restain the cabinets, they're in very good, sound condition. If staining current color doesn't work, will try a darker stain, then paint, if nothing else looks good - GUT JOB. I plan on trying everything else first, including replacing floors, countertops, painting, appliances (no dw in there now) We are empty nesters and aren't fancy people, nor am I a follower who has to have the latest and greatest. I can't see getting rid of solid wood cabinets to replace them with some MDF crap. I've actually been seeing some more of this type of molding lately. If I have to gut, I've found a great idea. It's not like it's totally out of the question, I'd just love to find someone who knows how to work with the cabinets that are in there, someone with vision and great ideas - it's so easy to come up with ideas when you gut out a kitchen and start with a blank slate. To me, it takes someone very special to be able to work with what you have - but I've yet to find that person

This is something I'd consider upon having to try and paint
So you want to replace the floors, countertops, appliances and everything else........... EXCEPT THE CABINET!!!!!!

What are you afraid of? The big box store prices?

Why? Almost no cabinets today are made with MDF crap as you call them. Do you mean particle board? That dirty filthy curse word that sends even the best of us to a burning hell at the mere mention of that curse word? If you would like to know, particle board is far superior to plywood cabinets. And when you buy a PB cabinet, only the sides, back and bottom floor is PB. The faceframe, doors and drawer face is solid wood right from the tree.

Oh you say particle board is fake? Well then so is plywood fake. They are both manufactured products. Yes they are both made in a factory. Plywood is thin layers of wood and PB is particles of wood.....both are pressed with glues and resins and sold to the building trades. The only solid real wood as some people call it are the doors, drawer faces and face frame.

My favorite line: "Oh but if PB gets wet.....bla bla bla". My come back? "Whataya do hose down your cabinets? How the hell do they get wet? After Hurricane IKE when people were gutting their homes and putting the soaked junk out to the street for pickup, there were just as many or more plywood cabinets then particle board ones soaked into junk. And many of them replaced with PB cabinets. In most cases that's all insurance would cover.

The kitchen and bathrooms are the highlight of your home. When you are remodeling, frankly....they deserve no less then a complete remodel. Not a half azz remodel because the big box stores quoted a price for a cabinet that exceeded a new car. Nearly every small cabinet showroom discounts heavy from list price. The big box stores charge full list price or MSRP.

Complete your project. Don't put a bandaid on it with a can of paint. No you can not stain finished wood.

Sorry for the sarcasm.....had to get my point across. Some people listen to me and some people never will.
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,427 posts, read 29,188,090 times
Reputation: 9600
Quote:
Originally Posted by staywarm2 View Post
Uh, you are always saying NOT to reface, yet this advice certainly sounds like refacing!!!
Yes you are correct Staywarm2. In this case the homeowner has really good cabinets and only wants to change the look. Since sanding and staining is ridicules and never comes out respectable I suggested the new door/drawers and sand the face frames to restain or skin over the face and sides.

This method can be done by anyone with reasonable skills and some motivation. If you were to hire a refacing company you will pay much more then if you were to buy new cabinets. That I will always stand by.
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:40 PM
 
553 posts, read 725,959 times
Reputation: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
I chose one that was mostly grey with darker accents and some brown accents. This was done to compliment the much darker charcoal granite countertops and bring out the warmth of the natural cherry cabinets.

I expect it to be installed in the next couple of weeks...just in time for puppies! Ease of cleaning, durability, and the fact these are being applied to a concrete floor, were the reasons I chose this particular product.
Sounds pretty! Duraceramic and Marmoleum are on the short list for kitchen flooring. Are you going to post a pic after it's installed? Oh, and are you to post a pic of the pups?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldemila View Post
Oh, trust me, I'm all over the GW website as well as many others.

Not to hijack your thread, but wanted to respond about our kitchen.

Actually, I'm trying to work with what I have, going to try and restain the cabinets, they're in very good, sound condition. If staining current color doesn't work, will try a darker stain, then paint, if nothing else looks good - GUT JOB. I plan on trying everything else first, including replacing floors, countertops, painting, appliances (no dw in there now) We are empty nesters and aren't fancy people, nor am I a follower who has to have the latest and greatest. I can't see getting rid of solid wood cabinets to replace them with some MDF crap. I've actually been seeing some more of this type of molding lately. If I have to gut, I've found a great idea. It's not like it's totally out of the question, I'd just love to find someone who knows how to work with the cabinets that are in there, someone with vision and great ideas - it's so easy to come up with ideas when you gut out a kitchen and start with a blank slate. To me, it takes someone very special to be able to work with what you have - but I've yet to find that person

This is something I'd consider upon having to try and paint
Our house was built in the 1920s and had a bad 1940s/50s remodel. The cabs were almost falling apart, wouldn't stay closed (we joked about the kitchen ghost always opening the cabinet doors) and there was no dishwasher. We gutted the kitchen to the studs, moved a wall, insulated, new electric, plumbling, drywall, window, radiant flooring, light fixtures, flooring, cabinets, backsplash, counters, etc. Believe it or not, the cabinet cost wasn't too bad. But if you can save yourself the hassle and be happy with the cabinets you have, go for it! When you start making changes in old houses, you really open a can of worms!

I like your inspiration piece!

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Yes you are correct Staywarm2. In this case the homeowner has really good cabinets and only wants to change the look. Since sanding and staining is ridicules and never comes out respectable I suggested the new door/drawers and sand the face frames to restain or skin over the face and sides.

This method can be done by anyone with reasonable skills and some motivation. If you were to hire a refacing company you will pay much more then if you were to buy new cabinets. That I will always stand by.
When we bought our current house and weren't sure what to do with the kitchen we got a quote to reface the (crappy) cabinets. I didn't laugh while the sales guy was in the house, but it was hard not to. I would NEVER pay a company to reface cabinets. I think they wanted $5k to reface five double cabinets, which is all our kitchen had. Ridiculous.
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:52 PM
 
553 posts, read 725,959 times
Reputation: 821
I'm going to hijack my own thread

We're having a hard time finding exactly what we want in a resale home, so we're meeting with two different builders this week. One uses Merillat cabinetry and the other uses a custom shop.

While I'm not exactly building my dream kitchen, because I can't spend the GDP of a small country on my kitchen, I want it to be solid and of good quality. Merillat has three levels of cabinetry. How is the quality of each level, generally? Where will I get the most bang for my buck?

Finally, does anyone have a ballpark price on this island or an island like it? Is it $5k, $10k, or do I not even want to know?
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
1,652 posts, read 4,847,345 times
Reputation: 885
It should be less than 5K. The most expensive part is going to be the stone top. The cabinets should be rather inexpensive.

Go custom, it's always better, trust me.
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:36 PM
 
29,990 posts, read 20,133,267 times
Reputation: 12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennquaker09 View Post
It should be less than 5K. The most expensive part is going to be the stone top. The cabinets should be rather inexpensive.

Go custom, it's always better, trust me.
Agree, you might be surprised. I was able to find a custom cabinet maker (true custom) that is building my kitchen cabinets for less than I would have paid for the more well known "semi-custom" through kitchen shops & box stores. The up-side to the real estate slump, if there is one, is that there are good craftsman happy for whatever work they can find.
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Somewhere, out there
2,156 posts, read 2,456,282 times
Reputation: 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
So you want to replace the floors, countertops, appliances and everything else........... EXCEPT THE CABINET!!!!!!

What are you afraid of? The big box store prices?

Why? Almost no cabinets today are made with MDF crap as you call them. Do you mean particle board? That dirty filthy curse word that sends even the best of us to a burning hell at the mere mention of that curse word? If you would like to know, particle board is far superior to plywood cabinets. And when you buy a PB cabinet, only the sides, back and bottom floor is PB. The faceframe, doors and drawer face is solid wood right from the tree.

Oh you say particle board is fake? Well then so is plywood fake. They are both manufactured products. Yes they are both made in a factory. Plywood is thin layers of wood and PB is particles of wood.....both are pressed with glues and resins and sold to the building trades. The only solid real wood as some people call it are the doors, drawer faces and face frame.

My favorite line: "Oh but if PB gets wet.....bla bla bla". My come back? "Whataya do hose down your cabinets? How the hell do they get wet? After Hurricane IKE when people were gutting their homes and putting the soaked junk out to the street for pickup, there were just as many or more plywood cabinets then particle board ones soaked into junk. And many of them replaced with PB cabinets. In most cases that's all insurance would cover.

The kitchen and bathrooms are the highlight of your home. When you are remodeling, frankly....they deserve no less then a complete remodel. Not a half azz remodel because the big box stores quoted a price for a cabinet that exceeded a new car. Nearly every small cabinet showroom discounts heavy from list price. The big box stores charge full list price or MSRP.

Complete your project. Don't put a bandaid on it with a can of paint. No you can not stain finished wood.

Sorry for the sarcasm.....had to get my point across. Some people listen to me and some people never will.
I always welcome suggestions, I wouldn't be on the net posting about the kitchen (and bathroom AND other rooms) if I didn't.

I feel that if I can be happy with what's there by updating other components, why rip out perfectly sound cabinets?

I would't bother with the big box stores. I've had a cabinet maker come out and give me an estimate and I don't believe it's bad at all, especially for the size of kitchen I have and that they would be all wood cabinets.

But I really didn't think it would be so hard to work with what was there and I'm going to try and do the stain first. If it comes out looking bad, then I'll try the paint. I really like the "Regency Style" cabinet I posted above and think it would look stunning in there with the right countertops, flooring, etc.

If course, if we find that we have to go the route of remodeling, we'll do it, but do it for us and not to impress others. Again, we aren't fancy at all and don't need/want an elaborate kitchen. I can keep things simple and in line. It's not about the money at all. It would be so out of character for us to have some stately ornate looking kitchen.

Our current home, we had the kitchen remodeled, gosh, over 15, maybe 20 years ago. We have white formica cabinets and formica countertops with the backsplash all the way up the wall done in the same formica as the countertops. It's done us just fine. I'll consider mica countertops again if I find what I like. They've stood the test of time with one or two nicks.

Would I balk at a home with a magnificent kitchen if it had one when purchasing a home, heck no, it's nice to have, but do I need it, no.

If we end up going with a new kitchen, it will be a whole new ball of wax to deal with - it took me about 3 yrs, tons of books and lots of pages ripped out of magazines to come up with the kitchen I planned out, but it worked out well the way I planned it. I haven't given much thought to a layout with this new kitchen at all, and really don't want to wait 3yrs before doing something with - I don't do things unless I've taken my time, thought well and hard about it and have a good plan to go on.

I appreciate you taking time to voice your thoughts - all information, good or bad, is always appreciated!!!!
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Old 07-12-2010, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,427 posts, read 29,188,090 times
Reputation: 9600
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmomof2 View Post
S


When we bought our current house and weren't sure what to do with the kitchen we got a quote to reface the (crappy) cabinets. I didn't laugh while the sales guy was in the house, but it was hard not to. I would NEVER pay a company to reface cabinets. I think they wanted $5k to reface five double cabinets, which is all our kitchen had. Ridiculous.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen to the nice lady, Mom of 2 beautiful dogs. She knows what she is talking about. And $5000 was a good quote!! You should have heard some of the higher ones that would have come in. Brand new average cabinets may have cost about $1400 for those 5 cabinet boxes not including installation.
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