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First time homebuyer and first time remodeling. We are doing the kitchen as part of a bigger remodel and trying to choose a cabinet maker. We went to what I thought were 3 levels in the spectrum. We went to a boutique kitchen specialized cabinet designer with a nice showroom, to a small shop which seems to be like a middle of the road option, and to home depot for the low end option.
Have not received the quote yet from the high end one but she said it would be $15k minimum. Home Depot came at $11k with Kraft Maid cabinetry (just kitchen). But I have been reading nightmare stories about cabinetry from HD.
This is the quote from what I think is a middle of the road local shop. It comes under $13k for kitchen and 2 bathrooms. They use Cimino's for cabinet doors: Ciminos Cabinet Doors
Keep in mind the prices are for San Francisco Bay Area.
Quote:
MILLWORK / CABINET:
1) Furnish 3/4" thick Maple veneer plywood cabinet interior with Maple veneer edge tape at front (Not Solid Wood Frame) and adjustable shelves.
2) Furnish 5/8"thick veneer plywood drawer boxes and pull-out tray.
3) Furnish "Blum" under mount motion-closing tandem plus full extension drawer slide;
Self-closing for pull-out tray.
4) Furnish 3 1/4"H crown molding (3 1/2"H top frame, 3"H reveal).
5) Furnish "Blum" 110 degree motion-closing conceal door hinges.
6) Furnish 5mm drilled holes and 5mm self supports (pin type) for adjustable shelves.
7) Cabinet to be frame-less style (1/8" reveal).
Kitchen Cabinet:
1) Furnish Maple material with "Off White" Color - TBD (matte finished - conversion varnish).
2) Furnish Pacific Groove door style with solid and 5-piece drawer fronts.
* 1 Set Kitchen Cabinet
Bathroom Vanities:
1) Furnish Maple material with Color - TBD (matte finished - conversion varnish).
2) Furnish Pacific Groove door style with solid and 5-piece drawer fronts.
$ 9,973.46
$ 1,430.06 $ 1,472.48
$ 12,876.00
* 1 = Bathroom Vanity: 70"W x 32"H x 21"Deep
* 1 = Master Bathroom Vanity: 73"W x 32"H x 21"Deep
(Lump Sum - Tax Included)
Are there any things I need to ask?
What do you think of the price?
Any other recommendations are very much appreciated.
First time homebuyer and first time remodeling. We are doing the kitchen as part of a bigger remodel and trying to choose a cabinet maker. We went to what I thought were 3 levels in the spectrum. We went to a boutique kitchen specialized cabinet designer with a nice showroom, to a small shop which seems to be like a middle of the road option, and to home depot for the low end option.
Have not received the quote yet from the high end one but she said it would be $15k minimum. Home Depot came at $11k with Kraft Maid cabinetry (just kitchen). But I have been reading nightmare stories about cabinetry from HD.
This is the quote from what I think is a middle of the road local shop. It comes under $13k for kitchen and 2 bathrooms. They use Cimino's for cabinet doors: Ciminos Cabinet Doors
Keep in mind the prices are for San Francisco Bay Area.
Are there any things I need to ask?
What do you think of the price?
Any other recommendations are very much appreciated.
Thanks
First.....STAY VERY VERY VERY clear of the home made boxes with the Cimino doors. The finish will be 3rd rate junk. You will get zero warranty. And the quality just will not.....can not be there as you will get with a product by any major cabinet manufacturer. The horror stories I witness every single day by these clowns who build them far outweigh the complaints by Home Junkpo. If you google HomeDepot complaints your computer screen will light up the night sky. But you can't google home made cabinets by Joe Schmoe in his garage because you won't find anything. My biggest issue is with the finish. No small cabinet builder can duplicate a finish that is applied by any major cabinet manufacturer.
If Home Junkpo came in at $11,000 then then take that bid to a Kraftmaid dealer locally and you can buy that kitchen for half that amount. Maybe just a tad over half. You see the big box stores sell cabinets as well as other merchandise for MSRP or full list price or retail price. Go to the small dealers who advertise 50% off which most of them do. There is a high markup on cabinets. It works like jewelry. Ever go into the mall and all the jewelry stores have signs advertising 50% off, 60% off.....80% off......how do they do that? Because they buy for 15 to 20 cents on a dollar. Most everyone.....including the big box stores buy cabinets for about 32 cents on a dollar. So discounting 50% still yields them a nice profit. Let the buyer beware!!!!
Try very hard to browse major cabinet brands made in the USA. You will get the warranty and many many....sometimes hundreds of color, style and wood choices. The homemade guy sells plywood boxes and buys Miniwax stain from Home Junkpo to finish them.
Please stay away from the total all cherry wood cabinet kitchen for $895 advertisements. They are Chinese made trash that is so infested with formaldehyde, sulfur and lead that it's enough to kill a small child with yet undeveloped immune system. There are documented cases of death by Chinese cabinet exposure just as there are with the more famous Chinese sheetrock death exposure.
I'll steer clear of naming brands but do some research and if you have any questions you can ask away.
Thanks for the reply. I have seen some of your other posts. You always say that HD will have higher prices and small shops will be less for the same stuff. I don't get that? From everything I know in retail, the big guys usually have better prices as they negotiate much bigger volumes. Could you please explain?
You also said:
Quote:
The homemade guy sells plywood boxes and buys Miniwax stain from Home Junkpo to finish them.
What's wrong with the boxes being plywood?
Quote:
STAY VERY VERY VERY clear of the home made boxes with the Cimino doors
What about just the Cimino doors, are they not good? Why exactly?
You also mentioned formaldehyde, that's definitely a big concern as we have a baby on the way.
Thanks for the reply. I have seen some of your other posts. You always say that HD will have higher prices and small shops will be less for the same stuff. I don't get that? From everything I know in retail, the big guys usually have better prices as they negotiate much bigger volumes. Could you please explain?
You also said:
What's wrong with the boxes being plywood?
What about just the Cimino doors, are they not good? Why exactly?
You also mentioned formaldehyde, that's definitely a big concern as we have a baby on the way.
Thnks
Yes the big box stores buy cheaper because of volume. But not exactly in cabinets and flooring. I used to be a Kraftmaid dealer. I bought for the same price as the big box stores do. The manufacturer does it this way so ALL dealers are treated fairly. What dealers wish to sell at is up to the consumer to research. We advertises 50% off list price on our web site. Many small dealers do. The big box stores never ever have sales. What they do sometimes is offer a free sink base with every order, or free hardware with every order, or free wood species upgrade or free finish upgrade.
Here is the catch that identifies the big box stores as greedy idiots. When they run these specials, it's in response to the cabinet manufacturer's spiffs or specials. So they are basically giving nothing away. An example would be ALL dealers would get a letter from corporate saying for the next 30 days, your store will be refunded 10% on all sales of cherry species or a specific door style. So obviously we would push that. The big stores don't push it but use it as price leader merchandise to get the customer in the door. Rule of thumb: Most consumers will never price shop. They need an item and buy it from the first store they go to without shopping around. The big box stores rely on dummy consumers.
Nothing in the big orange who only wants your little green is low priced. Smart Contractors steer very clear of big ticket items from there and usually only go for odds and ends for the sake of ease since those stores are everywhere.
Nothing is wrong with a plywood box or your Cimino doors. My beef is with the home made junk cabinets which many incorrectly call "custom cabinets". They are not custom. Those who make these home made boxes usually use low cost plywood grades which are unfinishable. Cabinet grade ply is much more expensive. And a waste of money too. I have posted many pros to furniture board (no longer called particle board) as opposed to plywood carcasses. I'll spare ya on that story for now.
ALSO KEEP IN MIND that many grades of plywood sheet goods are imported from China. Home Depot stocks this by the way. My trained eye can identify it. If any of you are making a purchase of any consumer goods and can't identify country of origin then look at the bar code. If the first 3 numbers are 690-692 then it is imported from China. This goes for cabinets, toys, medicine, and most important......food.
Bottom line is go with any major cabinet manufacturer. MAKE SURE!!!!!!! that it is KCMA certified and KCMA certified green and have another sticker with the letters ANSI. Most important is the KCMA sticker. If it's not KCMA certified then it's a piece of junk. KCMA is a non biased neutral non govt organization that rates cabinets. Kinda like the Consumer Reports of the cabinet industry. You will never find a home made small shop cabinet or any China cabinet with this sticker. Never.
Thank for the very instructional response. Are these KCMA certifications really enough to guarantee low levels of formaldehyde and other VOCs? I am not sure how much I can trust a lobby group sponsored by the cabinet makers. For example, KCMA doesn't think the levels of formaldehyde on typical cabinetry are anything to worry about.
They also claim to adhere to the California Air Resource Board regulation on emission levels saying it's the lowest in the world. My understanding is that many countries in Europe, specially Germany, have much stricter restrictions.
Quote:
KCMA’s Environmental Stewardship Program (ESP) now requires that composite wood used in the construction of ESP certified cabinetry must be compliant with emission levels set in 2009 by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). Those emission levels are the lowest in the world. Currently, 140 companies and brands, out of an estimated 17,000 U.S. cabinetmaking businesses, meet the stringent ESP requirements for certification.
I just talked to a young lady who sells cabinets for Loews. She told me they sell Kraft Maid and they do not sell at list. Also they are encouraged to price match. Which means they can adjust the price as they see fit. So all the **** that Desert spouts is just not so as others have said as well. Desert just help people out don't just make **** up.
I just talked to a young lady who sells cabinets for Loews. She told me they sell Kraft Maid and they do not sell at list. Also they are encouraged to price match. Which means they can adjust the price as they see fit. So all the **** that Desert spouts is just not so as others have said as well. Desert just help people out don't just make **** up.
Don't listen to him. He works for Lowes. Probably minimum wage since those stores do not pay a living wage. They also do not employ Certified Kitchen Designers. They do belong to NKBA which simply requires a very large annual fee for large stores and about $100 a year for peasants like myself with all the certifications to be proud of. Those who work for those 2 big stores ARE NOT Kitchen Designers. They are just Cabinet Salespeople. Virtually all of them were Cashiers who were promoted to what they call "Special Sales" and they are given a 3 day course in 20/20 design software. They are trained to sell for profit, NOT for maximum functionality. The poor customer watches the young Salesperson drawing their new dream kitchen on the PC screen but are really being short changed because they are not told about all the possible design ideas........BECAUSE THE DUMMY SALESPERSON DON'T KNOW ABOUT THEM TO TELL THE CUSTOMER!!
Go ahead and use the search feature on this thread. There are only 2 people of 2 million City Data users who think "think being the key word" that the big box stores are a good deal. Also to prove me right you can google the words Home Depot consumer cabinet complaints. I can guarantee you that your computer screen will light up the night sky and spot airplanes.
I have a now out of print published book with a chapter on the inside secrets of the big box stores. Funny how no one ever tried to sue me to shut my mouth. I guess that must mean I am truthful and factual and no one can prove me otherwise. I also write extensively on this topic in blogs and other Contractor Forums similar to this one but exclusively for the trade. True professionals know the truth. I'm just an activist for the consumer looking out for them.
I never ever said they were a great deal. I said they don't sell at list. I don't either. I'm selling one line I have now at 69% off list. They do have a right to charge whatever price they want. We do to. That's how the system works. Stop with the bashing and help people.
The other thing I'm saying is if you are in the business you don't need to bash the competition to get business.
I had one of your customers come in the other day and I did not bash the company you work for to get business.
I never ever said they were a great deal. I said they don't sell at list. I don't either. I'm selling one line I have now at 69% off list. They do have a right to charge whatever price they want. We do to. That's how the system works. Stop with the bashing and help people.
The other thing I'm saying is if you are in the business you don't need to bash the competition to get business.
I had one of your customers come in the other day and I did not bash the company you work for to get business.
Actually I do help people. Proof of that is the length of my posts compared to those 2 liners you do defending Lowes and Home Junkpo. Hardly a night goes by that I don't have several PMs in my inbox on this forum by people who value my advice and experience. I can assure you I get more satisfaction out of helping people then they get from my advice. It's an honor actually.
Define "bashing". Saying they charge too much? Saying they do not employ Certified Kitchen Designers? Saying the employees are for the most part just low wage earners with zero home improvement experience? Saying their business model has changed to rebranding many Chinese made merchandise and calling it their own? Or maybe the fact that they open one single cash register when the line stretches to the back of the store?
Which one is false? Exactly..........so it's not bashing.
I don't work for a company so how can you have one of my customers. The company you are thinking of was a short stint for me to build that company from scratch. Which I did. I took a 10 year old cabinet store in Galveston and moved it to some of the highest priced real estate in Houston. I designed and built a first class magnificent showroom to be proud of. I put every attachment and style at the fingertips of the customer. I put in a giant screen plasma TV with software to show the customer with every detail what their new kitchen will look like. No longer will 20/20 stick drawings be sufficient. We hired a model to produce a video in the showroom I built. It's nice. And I'm proud of it. But I no longer have very much to do with them. I do wish them very well. And wish you well too.
I don't work for a company so how can you have one of my customers. The company you are thinking of was a short stint for me to build that company from scratch. Which I did. I took a 10 year old cabinet store in Galveston and moved it to some of the highest priced real estate in Houston. I designed and built a first class magnificent showroom to be proud of. I put every attachment and style at the fingertips of the customer. I put in a giant screen plasma TV with software to show the customer with every detail what their new kitchen will look like. No longer will 20/20 stick drawings be sufficient. We hired a model to produce a video in the showroom I built. It's nice. And I'm proud of it. But I no longer have very much to do with them. I do wish them very well. And wish you well too.
Desert your story changes every 15 minutes. In previous posts recently you said you were working now you say your not. Which is it? So you did all that as an employee?
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