U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > House > Home Interior Design and Decorating
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-05-2009, 03:08 PM
 
7 posts, read 103,172 times
Reputation: 14

Advertisements

So my wife and I bought our first house, and would like to do a partial remodel of the kitchen.

We are removing our pantry to put in a half-wall/bar and open up the kitchen to the family room. We plan to have these new bar cabinets match our existing kitchen. To make up for the lost pantry space, we are putting some new cabinets in on a large empty wall in our kitchen (114" of open space, picture attached).

Our existing cabinets are 18 yrs old, and are Merillat Classic white thermofoil, Old White Bay (similar to Arbor Falls II) style. We dont want to use these cabinets in the new space for 2 reasons. One we dont think the new white will match our 18 yr old white, even if the style is the same. Two, we don't like white, or really even the style all that much.

So our idea is to put in a standalone-looking set of cabinets on that wall, about 2-3' from our existing cabinets. We went to Lowe's and found a Kraftmaid style we really like (Sonata Cherry Square with a Cafe finish). Merillat has a similar style that we also liked in Portrait/Silhouette Cherry Paprika or Maple Kona. All things equal, we prefer the KM cabinet color and style we saw at Lowes. We planned to put a standard 18, 36, 18s in for the lowers, then a 15x42, 36x48, and 15x42 on the top. With the 15s having glass in them. This means there is countertop visible across the whole piece, but the center of the uppers is also bumped out by 3-6" compared to the sides of the uppers.

Problem is, we have no idea if that will look retarded or not. One thing I've seen online for 2 color kitchens is to do the island in a different color than the rest of the kitchen. I would consider this, but then I would need to pull the granite countertops off of my current island, and I've heard thats a quick way to destroy your granite, your cabinets, or both. And I would need both to stay intact. Can anyone give any insight? Also, our walls will be repainted and we haven't picked a color yet. Our granite is a pinkish beige with flakes of black and dark green (sort of a Giallo Latina)

Second problem is that we have no idea where to buy the cabinets, or how much they should cost. We got a quote from a local (Ann Arbor, MI 48108) Merillat dealer and a quote from Lowe's. The prices were the same, but Lowe's was pricing a KM, while the local place was pricing Merillat Classic (which I understand is a step below KM, since KM is roughly the same as Merillat Masterpiece).

I've read a few posts in here by desertsun41 about what a bad deal Lowe's is, but I've never bought cabinets before, so I have no sense of what a good deal looks like.
Here's a sample of what Lowe's quoted me for a few KM Sonata Cherry Square cabinets:
Wall 3630 (36" wide, 30" tall wall cabinet) - 300
Wall 3618 - 237
Base 18R - 292
Base pot and pan storage 36 (3 drawers) - $674
Base Three drawer 18 - $393
They did a full out design that included all the breakdowns for adding trim, crown molding, baseboard, side wood panels, etc, but I just pulled out a few numbers so maybe someone can tell me how those compare to list price?
Attached Thumbnails
Need help with kitchen remodel (cabinets)-kitchen.jpg   Need help with kitchen remodel (cabinets)-kitchen2.jpg  

Last edited by Entropy42; 09-05-2009 at 03:22 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-05-2009, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,439 posts, read 47,501,275 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy42 View Post
So my wife and I bought our first house, and would like to do a partial remodel of the kitchen.

We are removing our pantry to put in a half-wall/bar and open up the kitchen to the family room. We plan to have these new bar cabinets match our existing kitchen. To make up for the lost pantry space, we are putting some new cabinets in on a large empty wall in our kitchen (114" of open space, picture attached).

Our existing cabinets are 18 yrs old, and are Merillat Classic white thermofoil, Old White Bay (similar to Arbor Falls II) style. We dont want to use these cabinets in the new space for 2 reasons. One we dont think the new white will match our 18 yr old white, even if the style is the same. Two, we don't like white, or really even the style all that much.

So our idea is to put in a standalone-looking set of cabinets on that wall, about 2-3' from our existing cabinets. We went to Lowe's and found a Kraftmaid style we really like (Sonata Cherry Square with a Cafe finish). Merillat has a similar style that we also liked in Portrait/Silhouette Cherry Paprika or Maple Kona. All things equal, we prefer the KM cabinet color and style we saw at Lowes. We planned to put a standard 18, 36, 18s in for the lowers, then a 15x42, 36x48, and 15x42 on the top. With the 15s having glass in them. This means there is countertop visible across the whole piece, but the center of the uppers is also bumped out by 3-6" compared to the sides of the uppers.

Problem is, we have no idea if that will look retarded or not. One thing I've seen online for 2 color kitchens is to do the island in a different color than the rest of the kitchen. I would consider this, but then I would need to pull the granite countertops off of my current island, and I've heard thats a quick way to destroy your granite, your cabinets, or both. And I would need both to stay intact. Can anyone give any insight? Also, our walls will be repainted and we haven't picked a color yet. Our granite is a pinkish beige with flakes of black and dark green (sort of a Giallo Latina)

Second problem is that we have no idea where to buy the cabinets, or how much they should cost. We got a quote from a local (Ann Arbor, MI 48108) Merillat dealer and a quote from Lowe's. The prices were the same, but Lowe's was pricing a KM, while the local place was pricing Merillat Classic (which I understand is a step below KM, since KM is roughly the same as Merillat Masterpiece).

I've read a few posts in here by desertsun41 about what a bad deal Lowe's is, but I've never bought cabinets before, so I have no sense of what a good deal looks like.
Here's a sample of what Lowe's quoted me for a few KM Sonata Cherry Square cabinets:
Wall 3630 (36" wide, 30" tall wall cabinet) - 300
Wall 3618 - 237
Base 18R - 292
Base pot and pan storage 36 (3 drawers) - $674
Base Three drawer 18 - $393
They did a full out design that included all the breakdowns for adding trim, crown molding, baseboard, side wood panels, etc, but I just pulled out a few numbers so maybe someone can tell me how those compare to list price?
Thanks for reading my past posts. I am not home to check my price book because I was offered quite a sum to travel to the east coast to design a nice big kitchen for some one you all know. But based on memory they do seem to be list price. Dont pay list price. Just dont do it. Anyone still trying to get list price wont be in business much longer in this economic depression.

I see you have my cabinets. Of course. Merillat dominates Michigan because the main plant is in Adrian, MI. which seems to be close enough to you. The paprika is and always has been for the past 20 or so years been the most popular and biggest seller by far.

Oh and be careful saying that white cabinets suck. I know it and everyone in the industry knows it but those on this forum defend it with their balls and their blood. That's ok, that dont make them bad. Your Whitebay or Arbor Falls whatever it is looks real good for it's age. Real good cabinet brand which might be why I stuck with it for nearly 30 years now.

You said you might lean on Kraftmaid. Kraftmaid and Merillat along with about 6 other popular brands everyone knows is all owned by Masco. Why dont you look at Merillat Masterpiece which is really made by Kraftmaid for Merillat and stamps Merillat inside the drawer. Masterpiece is quite expensive though but it's nicer then Ethan Allen furniture.

I cant tell what changes you are thinking about. But one thing is for sure. Lowes or Home Depot will not be able to design anything worthwhile for you but only for their bottom line. The big orange is real good at taking your green. Their cabinet sales people are not designers by any stretch. They are nice people but designing is not their field. The manager chose and took them from the floor clerking position and gave them a 3 day CAD course and said sell me some cabinets. You will be cheated out of the best design features because they dont even know about them. So the consumer is being cheated.

Why dont you try KSI Kitchen and Bath up there. They are quite large but I dont know if they discount. You can also try Dexter Cabinet and Countertop or Classic Cabinet and Interiors...all are Certified Signature Showrooms.

They should also do your design for free unlike the big box stores who charge $200 for a very very inferior design or should I just call it a drawing. Sorry man I cant help you with the design, it's just too hard to do anything based on some pictures but I hope I helped you out.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2009, 06:37 PM
 
7 posts, read 103,172 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Dont pay list price. Just dont do it. Anyone still trying to get list price wont be in business much longer in this economic depression.
I don't want to, just gotta find a place that will charge me less than that.
Quote:
Why dont you try KSI Kitchen and Bath up there. They are quite large but I dont know if they discount. You can also try Dexter Cabinet and Countertop or Classic Cabinet and Interiors...all are Certified Signature Showrooms.
Yeah, KSI is the other quote I received, so it seems like they charge list price as well. They quoted me the same cabinet in Merillat Classic Portrait in Cherry Paprika as Lowe's did for the Kraftmaid Sonata Cherry with Kafe glaze. The prices were pretty much the same, even though from what you are saying the Kraftmaid is a slightly higher grade cabinet than Merillat Classic.
I'll check out the other places you suggested.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2009, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,439 posts, read 47,501,275 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy42 View Post
I don't want to, just gotta find a place that will charge me less than that.

Yeah, KSI is the other quote I received, so it seems like they charge list price as well. They quoted me the same cabinet in Merillat Classic Portrait in Cherry Paprika as Lowe's did for the Kraftmaid Sonata Cherry with Kafe glaze. The prices were pretty much the same, even though from what you are saying the Kraftmaid is a slightly higher grade cabinet than Merillat Classic.
I'll check out the other places you suggested.
I gave you your local places. It will take some leg work to find the discounters. In thiis economy more and more are saying to hell with the list price.

If you get stuck think if you have a friend who is a contractor. They will be able to just ask the dealer to discount. Of course the dealer will discount. They dont want to lose a sale.

I will ask my regional Rep to see who he knows for you.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-07-2009, 01:34 PM
 
7 posts, read 103,172 times
Reputation: 14
My step-brother is a contractor, so we can get contractors pricing anywhere that will offer it. Should I just be calling these places and asking them what % of the list price they charge? Or should I just be getting quotes and comparing?

Any leads from your regional rep would be appreciated.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-07-2009, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,439 posts, read 47,501,275 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy42 View Post
My step-brother is a contractor, so we can get contractors pricing anywhere that will offer it. Should I just be calling these places and asking them what % of the list price they charge? Or should I just be getting quotes and comparing?

Any leads from your regional rep would be appreciated.
Step brother is a good start. These places love contractors because they know what they are doing somewhat and dont require lots of hand holding.

If a contractor walks in, even one we never seen before, we will give them 55% off list price. Everyone else gets 50% off list. This is with Merillat. It's too hard for now to get Merillat in Texas so I am working with other brands simular. We give 35% off list to everyone and 40% off to contractors.

If you are not getting those kinds of percentages off then go some place else. With that % off the dealer is still making a nice profit.

Those dealers I said to you are Signature dealers which means they are the best in customer service and qualified employees.

Good luck.......
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2009, 02:20 PM
 
7 posts, read 103,172 times
Reputation: 14
I was wrong about my step brother being a contractor, so thats out. But I've called around to a few places in the area now, and either they all charge full price or Lowe's doesn't seem to be as bad of a deal as you are saying. Equating Kraftmaid to Merillat Masterpiece, Lowe's is so far my lowest quote for equivalent layouts.

I have no idea what percentage of the list price anyone is charging, since I don't think I'm able to find MSRP for Kraftmaid or Merillat cabinets.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2009, 02:31 PM
 
7 posts, read 103,172 times
Reputation: 14
For what its worth, we finally figured out our kitchen and ordered our cabinets (Kraftmaid Sonata Cherry w/ Cabernet finish). In the end we bought them from Lowe's. I felt obligated to come on this forum and defend them, because I've read many posts here slamming Lowe's and Home Depot, but they still gave us the best price around. And definitely did not charge full MSRP. And the Kitchen Designer there made a lot of helpful suggestions about our kitchen that I hadn't though of. (For the record, we did not need a real kitchen "design" for this project, as we are just replacing our existing cabinets and keeping our existing layout)

We got quotes from 4 local places (Ann Arbor, MI) and 1 in Chicago that I saw online who advertised 70-60% off MSRP. Lowe's was the best price, and the ONLY place that would actually tell me what each part of the kitchen was going to cost. Everyone else just gave me 1 final number and hid the details. With Lowe's I could look at each cabinet, upgrade, and piece of trim and figure out if that was worth $XX to me. As they were finishing up our order, I saw the MSRP pricing in the computer for the sink, and based on what they were charging for the sink, I'd estimate they charge roughly 50% of MSRP. The KD there also told me that the "modifier" for pricing at Lowe's is very low in MI, so maybe in other parts of the country they are more expensive.

In the end, based on my one experience, I would have to recommend people check our their local Lowe's or Home Depot if they are shopping for cabinets. If their price sucks, you can always walk away. I spent an extra 2 months trying to find a better price than Lowe's cause I heard so much about what a bad deal they were, but never could find anything better. We'll see how things go when the cabinets arrive.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2009, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Raleigh, NC
532 posts, read 2,728,118 times
Reputation: 412
My parents in Boulder, CO used Home Depot and it could not have been more organized. They got a great price on materials as Kraftmaid was having a special and HD had a special if you used your HD credit card and their city and utilities also gave them specials. The were told up front what to expect, the timing, and sequence of events. In and out in less than 30 days and they got everything new except floor, fridge and range. they even had a vent put in to the roof for exhaust and a counter/bar cut down. Nothing came out until everything was checked in. They are retired and are at home all day and were not inconvenienced at all. The counter went out in the morning and the new one and water got hooked up by dinner -- no makeshift kitchen for 30 days or anything like that. It turned out beautiful and Kraftmaid cabinets and Silestone counters, new DW, sink, faucet, hardware, microwave, hood came in at about $13K.

A fraction was miscalculated for the builtin for the microwave (mom changed mind at last minute and change did not get conveyed quickly enough in production) and the contractor was a little difficult to get back out there (took about 2 weeks) to trim it down. Otherwise they were very happy. They did their own painting and Dad did the demo (taking down cabinets) the day before the install.

They liked the HD they used and the contractors were fantastic.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2009, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
1,149 posts, read 4,036,358 times
Reputation: 1122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy42 View Post
For what its worth, we finally figured out our kitchen and ordered our cabinets (Kraftmaid Sonata Cherry w/ Cabernet finish). In the end we bought them from Lowe's. I felt obligated to come on this forum and defend them, because I've read many posts here slamming Lowe's and Home Depot, but they still gave us the best price around. And definitely did not charge full MSRP. And the Kitchen Designer there made a lot of helpful suggestions about our kitchen that I hadn't though of. (For the record, we did not need a real kitchen "design" for this project, as we are just replacing our existing cabinets and keeping our existing layout)

We got quotes from 4 local places (Ann Arbor, MI) and 1 in Chicago that I saw online who advertised 70-60% off MSRP. Lowe's was the best price, and the ONLY place that would actually tell me what each part of the kitchen was going to cost. Everyone else just gave me 1 final number and hid the details. With Lowe's I could look at each cabinet, upgrade, and piece of trim and figure out if that was worth $XX to me. As they were finishing up our order, I saw the MSRP pricing in the computer for the sink, and based on what they were charging for the sink, I'd estimate they charge roughly 50% of MSRP. The KD there also told me that the "modifier" for pricing at Lowe's is very low in MI, so maybe in other parts of the country they are more expensive.

In the end, based on my one experience, I would have to recommend people check our their local Lowe's or Home Depot if they are shopping for cabinets. If their price sucks, you can always walk away. I spent an extra 2 months trying to find a better price than Lowe's cause I heard so much about what a bad deal they were, but never could find anything better. We'll see how things go when the cabinets arrive.
When we bought our cabinets in June, we bought from Lowes' becausemy stepfather was an employee, and we got the discount. The discount was tremendous compared to their regular pricing. However, I did shop around locally, and found like you did, that others were not willing to discount - UNLESS I went through my contractor, who was doing other, non-kitchen-related work, but, I would have had to hire him to install them, which would have ended up costing me more, since we installed them ourselves (Kraftmaid, white shaker with inset beadboard). So, don't feel too horribly about spending the money.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > House > Home Interior Design and Decorating
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top