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Old 01-17-2012, 07:34 PM
 
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We have an 04 RSX, which of course has been discontinued. It's been a great car for a daily commuter. Other than oil changes and tire changes and 1 set of brakes, we've had 0 maintenance costs or issues. Coming onto 140k. I'm far overdue on scheduled mx and plan to dump some money into it soon just to keep it going for hopefully another 150-200k miles.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Land of Free Johnson-Weld-2016
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I think they're reliable and handle well. But I agree the new models are expensive, but not so fun to drive and they're ugly. The models I like are the more recent SUV's, but they're too expensive for me.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:10 AM
 
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One other thing I would add is that when Acura was big in the mid-2000's, they hit a point where there was a lot of "space" between regular and luxury cars. Overtime the regular cars have continued to push up the ladder so that you end up with things like loaded Accord EX-L's, VW Passat SEL Premiums and Fusion Titaniums that might as well just be considred entry level luxury. They have everything that an entry level luxury car would have except for the badge and they also tend to cost less.

A fully decked Accord EX-L rings in at around $33k. An Acura TL starts at $35k and goes up to $45k. There is almost nothing in equipment, power, options, etc. that really makes a loaded TL worth $12k more than a loaded Accord. The TL has about 30 more horsepower and would have AWD at the loaded price, but that's about it.

Of the "luxury" brands, I think Acura has suffered from this effect the most right alongside Lincoln with its current lineup. Infiniti is unique compared to other Nissans owing to the RWD platform. GM has managed to differentiate Buick. When you look at Lincoln and Acura, they are "Buick" style brands that just haven't found the right mix or direction.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,538,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
One other thing I would add is that when Acura was big in the mid-2000's, they hit a point where there was a lot of "space" between regular and luxury cars. Overtime the regular cars have continued to push up the ladder so that you end up with things like loaded Accord EX-L's, VW Passat SEL Premiums and Fusion Titaniums that might as well just be considred entry level luxury. They have everything that an entry level luxury car would have except for the badge and they also tend to cost less.

A fully decked Accord EX-L rings in at around $33k. An Acura TL starts at $35k and goes up to $45k. There is almost nothing in equipment, power, options, etc. that really makes a loaded TL worth $12k more than a loaded Accord. The TL has about 30 more horsepower and would have AWD at the loaded price, but that's about it.

Of the "luxury" brands, I think Acura has suffered from this effect the most right alongside Lincoln with its current lineup. Infiniti is unique compared to other Nissans owing to the RWD platform. GM has managed to differentiate Buick. When you look at Lincoln and Acura, they are "Buick" style brands that just haven't found the right mix or direction.
I agree with some of what you say. But it is grossly incorrect to equate Acura to Buick. Acura vehicles have never had the over-60 ride and appeal of Buick. An Acura TL is a firm riding car, and only recently has a Buick handled remotely close to an Acura.

An Accord EX-L is very nicely equipped. But it still doesn't have the fit and finish, interior materials, and handling of the TL. And the MDX is worlds apart from a Honda Pilot.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
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I see there is a lot of Acura bashing in this thread - but I have an 09 TSX and love it. The gas mileage on it is decent, the sound system is EXCELLENT, and I do get compliments from people on it being a nice car.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:16 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 36,004,673 times
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Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I agree with some of what you say. But it is grossly incorrect to equate Acura to Buick. Acura vehicles have never had the over-60 ride and appeal of Buick. An Acura TL is a firm riding car, and only recently has a Buick handled remotely close to an Acura.

An Accord EX-L is very nicely equipped. But it still doesn't have the fit and finish, interior materials, and handling of the TL. And the MDX is worlds apart from a Honda Pilot.
Is it really that off to equate Acura to Buick? What market segment does Buick slot in, what segment does Acura slot in? Buicks may have been cobbled together "geezer pleasers" for a long time, but that doesn't change the fact they occupied a slot above Chevy, but below Cadillac, so somewhere between mainstream and luxury, which is the same segment that Acura is in.

Most people would define the current "near luxury" market to be composed of: Acura, Infiniti, Buick and Lincoln. None of them are true luxury marques and none of them offer a full range of vehicles. That was the point, these cars/brands need an identity to set them apart, whatever that identity is. GM has done that recently with Buick. Nissan has done that with Infiniti. Acura and Lincoln are the ones struggling with their identities.

I think a good part of the reason for the "squeeze" on the near luxury brands is that you can get the mainstream models with the same equipment and darn near the same levels of "luxury" for thousands less. If those brands don't have an identity then they won't be succesful.

There is a $12,000 price difference between a loaded TL and a loaded Accord. Yes, there are differences, but are there $12k worth of differences? If you head over to Honda and Acura boards, this is something they debate all the time. While the TL used to be a hands down favorite a lot of people question if it is really worth the money. The most cited statement is that if you want to stay in the Honda family, just pick the Accord and get 90% of the TL for 75% of the money. If you really want to step up and spend more, there are plenty of other options that are more "luxury" or "interesting" from BMW, Infiniti, Audi, Cadillac, etc.

TL sales are now down to 30% of what they were at their peak. They used to move 100k+ units a year and are now scraping by selling a shade over 30k units. The MDX is a different story and its uniqueness versus other product and its real competitiveness in the segment is the main reason why. The MDX has been the best selling Acura vehicle for the past several years and is almost carrying the brand.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC & New York
10,830 posts, read 26,420,127 times
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I think that Acura lost its focus with the TL, and did not innovate, except for the design exercise. The TSX is a great car that does much well, and the MDX is unique. The ZDX is just strange, and the RDX needs to be brought up to the level of a smaller MDX in concept. With a few tweaks, the RDX would be quite a good vehicle, but now has the Q5 to compete with, in addition to the X3. The ZDX needs to be dropped, not unlike the bizarre X6, where a segment was attempted to be invented, akin to the Mercedes CLS in an SUV.

In terms of ride, Lexus is much more Buick-like than Acura has been. I think that the tailored lines of the previous generation TL were changed so radically that it polarized other buyers. I agree that there has been a blurring of lines between the segments, but the Accord is still on an Accord chassis, and it handles well enough, but is not built to the same standard as an Acura. The other factor with the TL suffering has been the TSX which is now larger, similar to the older TL in size, and has a V6 option and a wagon, such that the TSX lineup is more versatile, and those that want the same size vehicle may opt for it over the TL, that had more of the controversial styling package. Plus, the TSX tops out around $40k, which is similar to the TL's price point.

Acura needs a new TL, to drop the ZDX, and bring the RL a bit more upmarket, allowing the TL room in the price lineup. The market may shift to the TSX being the better seller, however, which would allow room for a smaller model, perhaps hybrid or turbo-diesel, as an entry-level where the RSX used to be positioned. There was rumor of a turbo-diesel TSX being launched, but I have not seen/heard anything about that lately. Acura was supposed to launch a V8 option for the RL, I believe, but plans were scrapped for that concept. A twin turbo V6, however, that gets the performance of an 8, with the economy of a small 6 might not be a bad option to pursue for Acura, however.
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Old 01-18-2012, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,538,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Is it really that off to equate Acura to Buick? What market segment does Buick slot in, what segment does Acura slot in? Buicks may have been cobbled together "geezer pleasers" for a long time, but that doesn't change the fact they occupied a slot above Chevy, but below Cadillac, so somewhere between mainstream and luxury, which is the same segment that Acura is in.

Most people would define the current "near luxury" market to be composed of: Acura, Infiniti, Buick and Lincoln. None of them are true luxury marques and none of them offer a full range of vehicles. That was the point, these cars/brands need an identity to set them apart, whatever that identity is. GM has done that recently with Buick. Nissan has done that with Infiniti. Acura and Lincoln are the ones struggling with their identities.

I think a good part of the reason for the "squeeze" on the near luxury brands is that you can get the mainstream models with the same equipment and darn near the same levels of "luxury" for thousands less. If those brands don't have an identity then they won't be succesful.

There is a $12,000 price difference between a loaded TL and a loaded Accord. Yes, there are differences, but are there $12k worth of differences? If you head over to Honda and Acura boards, this is something they debate all the time. While the TL used to be a hands down favorite a lot of people question if it is really worth the money. The most cited statement is that if you want to stay in the Honda family, just pick the Accord and get 90% of the TL for 75% of the money. If you really want to step up and spend more, there are plenty of other options that are more "luxury" or "interesting" from BMW, Infiniti, Audi, Cadillac, etc.

TL sales are now down to 30% of what they were at their peak. They used to move 100k+ units a year and are now scraping by selling a shade over 30k units. The MDX is a different story and its uniqueness versus other product and its real competitiveness in the segment is the main reason why. The MDX has been the best selling Acura vehicle for the past several years and is almost carrying the brand.
Lincoln doesn't belong in that "near luxury" category at all. It is its own obsolete category in its current form.

Buick was part of GM's grand stepladder as you progressed in your life. Start with a Chevy, buy a Pontiac for fun, go with Olds and Buick as you advanced, and finally get a Cadillac when you got rich. Buick turned into a geezer's car until just a few years ago. And now it is starting to get recognition as a legitimate choice for younger successful people. But if you look at the Enclave - it is a soft, chromed-up version of the Traverse.

Acura was supposed to be Honda's version of Lexus. Early on they were sportier, had Honda's best engines, and more luxury. They were never as luxurious as Lexus. As we all know, Acura sort of lost its way. The TL was an attempt to be bold (it was styled in the US) as a break from Acura's normal conservatism. But the beak was controversial and not popular. In the meantime Honda has done almost nothing with its engines, stands firm with FWD or SH-AWD, and has fallen behind. No Acura rides like a Buick. The slow selling RL is the softest Acura and most Buick-like.
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Old 01-18-2012, 02:44 PM
 
Location: United State of Texas
1,708 posts, read 5,450,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWatson13 View Post
Honda plus is barely a luxury car today, on par with Buick. Ugly as sin, far behind in technology with no vision for the future, no performance, no great MPG, whats the point?

Shame, the NSX and Legend/Integra were sweet cars. The 3rd gen TL was sweet.

And damn they are UGLY.
Spew that hatred for Honda big boy. It makes you look so cool.

But boy are you right about the styling of the latest Acura offerings. They are horrible. I think Acura and Infiniti have both lost their way somewhat.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
4,486 posts, read 15,284,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwguydc View Post
Acura needs a new TL, to drop the ZDX, and bring the RL a bit more upmarket, allowing the TL room in the price lineup. The market may shift to the TSX being the better seller, however, which would allow room for a smaller model, perhaps hybrid or turbo-diesel, as an entry-level where the RSX used to be positioned. There was rumor of a turbo-diesel TSX being launched, but I have not seen/heard anything about that lately. Acura was supposed to launch a V8 option for the RL, I believe, but plans were scrapped for that concept. A twin turbo V6, however, that gets the performance of an 8, with the economy of a small 6 might not be a bad option to pursue for Acura, however.
Acura needs to carve out an identity in the automotive world before it starts changing the lineup. Is Acura going to stay as a competitor in the near-luxury market- a gilded Honda if you will or does Acura want to become a true competitor to the likes of Lexus/Cadillac/BMW?

The RL isn't competitive at the price point it's at, nobody who is serious about dropping $50K+ on a luxury vehicle is going to give an RL a second look. At that price point you're comparing the bland and somewhat ugly RL against a very polished, refreshed E-Class and a popular 5-Series. The RL doesn't really stand much of a chance against either.

The TSX isn't a bad vehicle for the price but it lacks the soul or polish that is seen in other vehicles in the near-luxury range. The TL faces much the problem of the RL- too expensive, the competitors outshine it for the price.

The ZDX, MDX, and RDX are truly, truly ugly. They're absolutely hideous and don't sell well at all. Who'd seriously buy an MDX when, for the same money, you can buy a well-equipped Cadillac SRX or Lexus RX350? And while the MDX may have 7 seats, the third row is probably one of the worst in it's class. If you need a true third row in a crossover, you're probably going to look to a Traverse/Enclave.

Acura could become successful if they can add some focus to their brand and start designing appealing vehicles. Acura could follow the Cadillac formula of 2008 when it introduced the CTS which was designing a vehicle that is basically the price of a 3-Series with the size of a 5-Series. Now they're shying away from that formula but it opened the door to a consumer base who now takes Cadillac seriously in the luxury market.
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