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Old 01-19-2012, 02:27 AM
 
170 posts, read 488,364 times
Reputation: 78

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I used to love Acura 7 or 8 years ago. The TL was the the car I wanted if I could afford it. Now that I can afford it I would not even coinsider it. I Still love the old 95 Legend and they still command pretty decent prices. I used always think Acura ( especially the TL) was the brand that had everything I wanted at the price point that was really good. Now they look weird and they are getting more expensive. I just dont see the value in purchasing them over other makes. IMO Hyundia has kinda taken over what Acura used to do...
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,442,314 times
Reputation: 9216
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post
Acura needs to carve out an identity in the automotive world before it starts changing the lineup. Is Acura going to stay as a competitor in the near-luxury market- a gilded Honda if you will or does Acura want to become a true competitor to the likes of Lexus/Cadillac/BMW?

The RL isn't competitive at the price point it's at, nobody who is serious about dropping $50K+ on a luxury vehicle is going to give an RL a second look. At that price point you're comparing the bland and somewhat ugly RL against a very polished, refreshed E-Class and a popular 5-Series. The RL doesn't really stand much of a chance against either.

The TSX isn't a bad vehicle for the price but it lacks the soul or polish that is seen in other vehicles in the near-luxury range. The TL faces much the problem of the RL- too expensive, the competitors outshine it for the price.

The ZDX, MDX, and RDX are truly, truly ugly. They're absolutely hideous and don't sell well at all. Who'd seriously buy an MDX when, for the same money, you can buy a well-equipped Cadillac SRX or Lexus RX350? And while the MDX may have 7 seats, the third row is probably one of the worst in it's class. If you need a true third row in a crossover, you're probably going to look to a Traverse/Enclave.

Acura could become successful if they can add some focus to their brand and start designing appealing vehicles. Acura could follow the Cadillac formula of 2008 when it introduced the CTS which was designing a vehicle that is basically the price of a 3-Series with the size of a 5-Series. Now they're shying away from that formula but it opened the door to a consumer base who now takes Cadillac seriously in the luxury market.
I don't agree on the MDX. I think it is very good looking. Much better than a X5 or ML. And not nearly the girly car the Lexus RX is. The 3rd row is not big, but big enough for small kids. It doesn't need to be as big as a Tahoe or chrome-infested Enclave.

Acura has a lot of work to do. I agree the ZDX is awful. The RDX is not bad at all. The new one will have a V6, which will get better mileage than the current turbo 4. And it is nice size for a two row. I hope Honda pulls off the coming NSX.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:17 AM
 
3,129 posts, read 5,292,513 times
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FYI, the TSX is going to be discontinued and the CIvic based ILX will replace it, also built in Ohio.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I agree with some of what you say. But it is grossly incorrect to equate Acura to Buick. Acura vehicles have never had the over-60 ride and appeal of Buick. An Acura TL is a firm riding car, and only recently has a Buick handled remotely close to an Acura.

An Accord EX-L is very nicely equipped. But it still doesn't have the fit and finish, interior materials, and handling of the TL. And the MDX is worlds apart from a Honda Pilot.
Acura and Buick is the same. Mostly FWD, No V-8 or anything truly sporty. No real 4x4s. No real luxury, sub entry level luxury with fake wood. Hell Acura will be nearly all made in America soon. Sorry but Acura used to be sportier and have more young people, today they have an aging demographic like Buick. The sportiest Acura is the Manual SH-AWD TL and less than 5% of sales are that model. MOst are FWD TLs that compete with the ES 350, Lacrosse, Avalon etc.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 13,286,469 times
Reputation: 10015
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Lincoln doesn't belong in that "near luxury" category at all. It is its own obsolete category in its current form.
The category of "near luxury" can either be praise or an epithet depending on your tone of voice and the context of what you are saying. As it applies to Buick, it is compliment because the brand has had roaring success in recent days and has shed its "geezer pleaser" identiy almost all together. The Lucerne is gone. GM knows they have Cadillac and does not want Buick to compete at the top level.

Calling Acura (or Infiniti or Lincoln) near luxury is basically a curse because those brands parent companies want nothing more then for their upscale brands to compete and suceed at the very top against BMW, M-B and Lexus who have dominated the segment. Lincoln is most certainly near luxury and is a wayward brand that has declining sales, questionable styling and very little brand identity. Our only Lincoln dealer in town is part of the big Ford store and they are just a corner of their showroom and lot. The front of their building is the Ford design - not even a distinct facade off to one side for their luxury brand - kind of like how Hyundai sells Genesis/Equus cars.

Quote:
But if you look at the Enclave - it is a soft, chromed-up version of the Traverse.
Well, that's a very heavy handed, uninformed and otherwise spiteful way to look at it. I could say every Acura is just an Accord (or Civic) with more buttons to press and an ugly grill tacked on.

Quote:
Acura was supposed to be Honda's version of Lexus.
We all get that, but without RWD and a V8/350+hp engine and a true range topping vehicle, they will never be able to step into the ring with Lexus (or M-B or BMW) That is why Cadillac is feverishly working on this right now. That is why Acura and Infiniti are declining in sales because competitors like Buick and Hyundai are stronger and gaining ground in the near luxury segment.

Quote:
No Acura rides like a Buick. The slow selling RL is the softest Acura and most Buick-like.
Turbo Regals are not soft. Some ride on 19s and have adjustable dampers and its available with a manual. The GS is even harder edged. Touring Lacrosses with 19s and the more agressive suspension package are also non-old school Buick like.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:24 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 35,841,471 times
Reputation: 14351
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwguydc View Post
I agree that there has been a blurring of lines between the segments, but the Accord is still on an Accord chassis, and it handles well enough, but is not built to the same standard as an Acura.
I don't really disagree with anything you said. I just wanted to point out that the TL does in fact ride on the same chassis as the US Accord. The US Accord platform is used for the TL, MDX, ZDX, Odyssey and Pilot. The Euro/JDM-spec Accord chassis is used for the TSX. The RDX shares a platform with the Civic, CR-V and Element.

This is one of the reasons they are canning the TSX and replacing it with a Civic derived model as the current TSX is the only Honda vehicle in North America to use that chassis. The other more likely reason is what you pointed out. The TSX has pretty much become one of the TL's main competitors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Lincoln doesn't belong in that "near luxury" category at all. It is its own obsolete category in its current form.

Buick was part of GM's grand stepladder as you progressed in your life. Start with a Chevy, buy a Pontiac for fun, go with Olds and Buick as you advanced, and finally get a Cadillac when you got rich. Buick turned into a geezer's car until just a few years ago. And now it is starting to get recognition as a legitimate choice for younger successful people. But if you look at the Enclave - it is a soft, chromed-up version of the Traverse.

Acura was supposed to be Honda's version of Lexus. Early on they were sportier, had Honda's best engines, and more luxury. They were never as luxurious as Lexus. As we all know, Acura sort of lost its way. The TL was an attempt to be bold (it was styled in the US) as a break from Acura's normal conservatism. But the beak was controversial and not popular. In the meantime Honda has done almost nothing with its engines, stands firm with FWD or SH-AWD, and has fallen behind. No Acura rides like a Buick. The slow selling RL is the softest Acura and most Buick-like.
Others have covered most of what I wanted to say. I don't disagree with much of your analysis, only to really quibble on what market we are talking about.

Honda actually launched Acura before Lexus and Infiniti. They were the first Japanese "luxury" brand. At the time these brands were launched in the mid-80's the definition of "luxury" was very different then what the market has evolved into in 2012. The current market is much more stratified. It doesn't matter if Honda wants or refers to Acura as their "luxury" division, it's not a luxury marque and doesn't compete in that market. Ford calls Lincoln their luxury division, you obviously don't believe them, right?

In order to be succesful in that market niche you need to have an identity, people need to know what the cars are and what the brand represents. Your cars need to be different enough to validate their price premium over their decked out mainstream cousins, but they need to be cheap enough to not bleed into the true luxury market. Buick has figured out the balance. Acura hasn't. In fact, I think I could make the argument that Buick is to 2012 what Acura was to 2005.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC & New York
10,830 posts, read 26,323,067 times
Reputation: 6895
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I don't really disagree with anything you said. I just wanted to point out that the TL does in fact ride on the same chassis as the US Accord. The US Accord platform is used for the TL, MDX, ZDX, Odyssey and Pilot. The Euro/JDM-spec Accord chassis is used for the TSX. The RDX shares a platform with the Civic, CR-V and Element.

This is one of the reasons they are canning the TSX and replacing it with a Civic derived model as the current TSX is the only Honda vehicle in North America to use that chassis. The other more likely reason is what you pointed out. The TSX has pretty much become one of the TL's main competitors.
Very true, what was I thinking?? The TSX and RL are imported, but the TL is from Ohio. It must be the tuning in the TL that makes it feel much more solid than an Accord, which is hardly a floaty vehicle, itself.

The upcoming ILX from Indiana does not seem to be as avant-garde as some of the more recent Acuras, so perhaps Acura listened to its customers. My issue with it is no V6, but they are offering a hybrid. Although, I am skeptical that this is a true successor to the TSX.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
4,486 posts, read 15,246,232 times
Reputation: 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I don't agree on the MDX. I think it is very good looking. Much better than a X5 or ML. And not nearly the girly car the Lexus RX is. The 3rd row is not big, but big enough for small kids. It doesn't need to be as big as a Tahoe or chrome-infested Enclave.

Acura has a lot of work to do. I agree the ZDX is awful. The RDX is not bad at all. The new one will have a V6, which will get better mileage than the current turbo 4. And it is nice size for a two row. I hope Honda pulls off the coming NSX.
I don't believe the ML was ever offered with a third row but correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree the X5 is also ugly as sin but neither the X5 nor the MDX are popular among consumers. Cadillac also made the mistake when introducing the 1st generation SRX of thinking consumers wanted a midsized crossover SUV with a very small third row- they figured out by the second generation that consumers wanted a small/midsized crossover with only two rows. If a customer wants a reasonably-priced crossover with a usable third row, the Traverse/Enclave/Acadia are also popular choices because each is large enough to seat an adult in the third row versus the MDX/X5 which is basically meant for a small child on a short trip.

Those looking for a true luxury crossover with decent third-row seating aren't paying much attention to the MDX/X5 either but rather focusing on the MB GL-Class or the Audi Q7- both of which offer an adequate third row in a luxury marque. The MDX either needs to become larger (and have better styling) or get rid of the third-row and attempt to compete with the Lexus RX/Cadillac SRX.

The RDX isn't a bad vehicle for the price, it starts very reasonably but I don't think it's competitive in the market.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
328 posts, read 544,838 times
Reputation: 446
Honestly, my favorite Acura's of all time were ones from the 90's...Early model integra's, the vigor, and the legacy were all very very nice looking vehicles...I almost thought they were ahead of their time, they still get me. Unfortunately, as you probably know, they rot out....If you dont mind a little rust, they're great. Also, over the years, I've gained a whole new line of respect for these imports. I have a 92 Honda Accord with 298k....burns very little oil, leaks none, shifts great and gets 31 mpg.....Fairly easy to work on as well. Keep your fluids clean and full, dont beat the living hell out of it, and it'll treat you well. Other than Toyota, there is no other product I would trust more than a Honda/Acura with those kind of miles. I thought acura had a great thing going with the RSX...but for some reason it was very short lived. I've lost a little interest in their latest line of cars/suv's....they look like they're trying to hard, and just dont flow well with me. I thought the 2004 redesigned TL was one of the smoothest, sleekest, semi luxurious yet still practical sedans on the road, still my favorite generation of TL's....
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:19 AM
 
Location: White House, TN
5,544 posts, read 3,893,371 times
Reputation: 3451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyAZ View Post
It seems that Acura is another dying brand without a true identity in the market. Their current vehicles are bland, boring, and lifeless while having prices tags that are inline with competitors but not matching with the luxury and technology offered by the competition. I don't think the market sees Acura as a true luxury brand competing with the likes of Mercedes/BMW/Lexus/Cadillac but rather a competitor in the near-luxury segment with Buick and Infiniti. Acura doesn't offer anything unique which would warrant someone buying a $40K Acura over a comparable vehicle; the Acura RL is particularly overpriced when one can buy a Mercedes E-Class or BMW 5-Series for the same money.
Cadillac? please... This ain't 1969.

Dying brand? Anything but. Honda quality in a luxury vehicle is a dream come true.

Yes, the Acura RL is outdated. In 2005 it was a great vehicle. But the RLX coming next year promises to fix that. And you're going to be eating your words when the NSX comes out.

I rode in a 2012 Acura TL on Saturday, June 23, 2012. Really, really amazing vehicle.

Acuras are more reliable than their competitors. They depreciate slower than any other luxury vehicle brand.

Technology? Please. Acuras are loaded with technology. SH-AWD, Bluetooth enabled smartphone technology, concert quality sound... you name it.

True, the Acura lineup overlaps with Honda - some current Acuras are not as luxurious as my 2008 Honda Accord. But my Accord is loaded and is Honda's nicest Honda brand vehicle.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:38 AM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,095 posts, read 23,605,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tropolis View Post
not talked about much on here. what do you guys think of the overall brand?
Quality build, dog ugly face.
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