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No it doesn't. While most of the torque goes to the front wheels most of the time, the ECU monitors a number of factors/inputs such as steering angle, speed, throttle position, etc., and constantly adjusts the torque slit accordingly.
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Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket
While you may select different modes which have preset torque splits
There are no selectable "pre-set torque splits" on an MS6.
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Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket
It's still considered a part time system as it's FWD on it's on normally unlike the Legacy which is AWD at all times normally. If you don't believe me then Google is your friend. Then again, you can also go to a Mazda forum.
Notwithstanding your insistence of assigning the misnomer of "part-time AWD" to this particular car, it is constantly adjusting the torque split so it's not a strictly reactive system like you characterize it. There are only two instances when there is no torque sent to the rear wheels: when it's in reverse, and when the e-brake is engaged.
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Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket
Now, we can agree to disagree on how it drives but I owned a Saab 9-3 Turbo X and we have a Subaru Legacy Spec. B at our place and I've driven various midsize sport sedans (of different drivetrain layouts) like the A4 Quattro, S60R, Nissan Altima SE-R, Acura TL Type-S. The MS6 drives more like a compact than any of the cars I just mentioned. It is smaller and lighter. It points where you want it to go. That's why articles and critics have consistently linked it to the EVO and STI.
It's bigger (not by much as again, the first gen Mazda6 in general is between compact and midsize) and cheaper and more mature if you don't like the ricer attitude. It also draws less unwanted attention. Of course, it's direct competitor is the Legacy GT.
I'm sorry but an MS6 drives nothing like an STi or an Evo, and it's definitely not a "point-and-shoot" car like those are. It's not nearly as hard-edged as those two and it makes no attempt to be. You and I also have very different recollections about how car critics compared/contrasted the MS6 to the Evo and STi. They were often lumped together because they were performance-oriented Japanese AWD turbo-4s in the same approximate price range. That's generally where the similarities end. The MS6 is bigger, heavier, slower, has a larger wheelbase, is more compliant, has more lean/roll, has a bigger turning radius, etc. -- which is to say, it doesn't drive like a performance compact. That's because it isn't one. Nobody in their right mind could drive a Speed6 back to back against an STi or Evo and come away thinking it's a direct competitor. A "grown-up" alternative, maybe. Direct competitor? Ah... no.
Understandable on the 2 door/4 door. I just see people rule it out and not all but a lot more then you expect at least to me, its easier to put a kid in the back of a 2 door.
Has for Honda, I heard there is some emergency refresh going on do to criticism of the release of their latest design, and they asked dealers to push 2012 models, because next to a 2013 they will be hard to sell. Google around, might be able to work a good deal.
It has a part-time AWD system. While you may select different modes which have preset torque splits. It's still considered a part time system as it's FWD on it's on normally unlike the Legacy which is AWD at all times normally. If you don't believe me then Google is your friend. Then again, you can also go to a Mazda forum.
Now, we can agree to disagree on how it drives but I owned a Saab 9-3 Turbo X and we have a Subaru Legacy Spec. B at our place and I've driven various midsize sport sedans (of different drivetrain layouts) like the A4 Quattro, S60R, Nissan Altima SE-R, Acura TL Type-S. The MS6 drives more like a compact than any of the cars I just mentioned. It is smaller and lighter. It points where you want it to go. It drives nothing like a big car to me. It feels way more like a compact than a big car. That's why articles and critics have consistently linked it to the EVO and STI.
It's bigger (not by much as again, the first gen Mazda6 in general is between compact and midsize) and cheaper and more mature if you don't like the ricer attitude. It also draws less unwanted attention. Of course, it's direct competitor is the Legacy GT.
To be honest YJ, if they had been making the MS6 more recently I would probably give one a look. I liked them way back when they came out in concept, but they were a little beyond my budget at the time. Right now, to find one with very low mileage that I would except, close enough to even go look at might be a chore. If one pops up, and looks like it is in great shape, I would consider it.
I am also disappointed the Legacy GT is dead. The 3.6R has some get up and go, but it certainly is not the sporty car the turbo GT used to be.
No it doesn't. While most of the torque goes to the front wheels most of the time, the ECU monitors a number of factors/inputs such as steering angle, speed, throttle position, etc., and constantly adjusts the torque slit accordingly.
If you want to go by the book it is part-time. It is not a full time system as much as you want to believe.
Unlike the Legacy, the MS6 does drive only in FWD at certain points. The Legacy keeps power to all wheels at all times. When the car is losing grip (the car can sense when it's losing grip before you actually can) then power is directly sent to the back wheels in order to prevent entirely losing grip. Now, the car monitors road speed, lateral G, yaw rate and engine speed to determine whether grip is being lost. If the car is determining that it is. Then power is applied and some times more is need and less is needed. There are times where the car is at 100% front.
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There are no selectable "pre-set torque splits" on an MS6.
The word "not" wasn't typed or didn't show up. Whatever, try again if you like.
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Notwithstanding your insistence of assigning the misnomer of "part-time AWD" to this particular car, it is constantly adjusting the torque split so it's not a strictly reactive system like you characterize it. There are only two instances when there is no torque sent to the rear wheels: when it's in reverse, and when the e-brake is engaged.
It's not a misnomer but it just sorts out the different systems. Full time AWD and Part Time AWD. It's truly not that difficult to understand at least for me. It is reactive as it process the state of the car and adjusts accordingly. It is very quick.
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I'm sorry but an MS6 drives nothing like an STi or an Evo, and it's definitely not a "point-and-shoot" car like those are. It's not nearly as hard-edged as those two and it makes no attempt to be. You and I also have very different recollections about how car critics compared/contrasted the MS6 to the Evo and STi. They were often lumped together because they were performance-oriented Japanese AWD turbo-4s in the same approximate price range. That's generally where the similarities end. The MS6 is bigger, heavier, slower, has a larger wheelbase, is more compliant, has more lean/roll, has a bigger turning radius, etc. -- which is to say, it doesn't drive like a performance compact. That's because it isn't one. Nobody in their right mind could drive a Speed6 back to back against an STi or Evo and come away thinking it's a direct competitor. A "grown-up" alternative, maybe. Direct competitor? Ah... no.
It is definitely a point and shoot car. Then again, if you couldn't get that out of you car then that's not my problem. The car is not an EVO or STI nor did I link it in such a way but as I said "It's bigger (not by much as again, the first gen Mazda6 in general is between compact and midsize) and cheaper and more mature if you don't like the ricer attitude. It also draws less unwanted attention". If you wanted 80%-90% of the capability but you wanted to be easier to live with everyday. You could get the MS6. EVO and the WRX STI are rally bred street compacts. They are smaller, highly tuned and are focus to go around the track as fast as possible.
It's a midsize car (by classification) so obviously it's bigger, heavier, it had amenities such as the NAV and sunroof and didn't drive entirely like a compact. Only compacts do that but I never said that. I said drove more like a compact than its rivals. Which is true and many reviews praised its sharp and poised handling prowess considering what it is. They didn't just lump them together because they were Japanese turbo 4 sedans. Otherwise the Legacy GT would have been in the discussion and it never was unless you're talking about the MS6. The weren't in similar price range with the EVO and STI, they both were about $4k more starting out and then the cost of ownership. It was meant to give you a sporty edge whilst being a comfortable sedan. That's why some MS6 reviews link it to the EVO and WRX STI.
It's doesn't drive an EVO or WRX STI.Certainly not but when I took it on the track. It was tight and didn't wallow about. You turn the wheel and it will turn efficiently. I'm sorry if you didn't get the most out of it but I certainly did.
I'm sorry if you didn't get the most out of it but I certainly did.
No need to feel sorry for me. Just because I recognize that it isn't a compact and doesn't drive like one doesn't mean I wasn't able to get the most of it. But if you want an actual point-and-shoot car that actually feels like a compact but still doesn't have the hard edge of an Evo or STi, look no further than their stablemates, the Ralliart and WRX. Even without being hard-nosed street racers like their high-strung siblings, they still make the MS6 feel like the mid-sizer it is.
According to Hendley's letter, buyers can look forward to "dramatic improvements to the exterior styling that moves Civic into a more premium sporty direction." The text also promises that the 2013's interior will receive "upgrades and improvements to bring more sophistication and quality to its appearance." For his part, American Honda President Tetsuo Iwamura has previously been quoted as saying that changes will be made to "improve the Civic's drivability," suggesting suspension and powertrain alterations are afoot as well.
The ninth-generation Civic has only been on sale for a year, and such a substantial refresh this early in the generation's lifecycle is unprecedented these days.
The ninth-generation Civic has only been on sale for a year, and such a substantial refresh this early in the generation's lifecycle is unprecedented these days – not just for Honda, but for the industry as well. The Japanese automaker has been stung by widespread criticism for the 2012 Civic range's lackluster dynamics, lessened interior quality, noise levels, low feature count and uninspiring design – perceived shortcomings exacerbated by the industry's hyper-competitive compact car segment. Among the critics, the Civic was given poor marks in a review by this site as well as influential institute Consumer Reports, which went so far as to remove the Civic from its coveted Recommended list. In fact, CR editors labeled the 2012 Civic a "car to avoid" in August.
A lack of critical praise doesn't seem to be harming Civic sales, however. According to the automaker's own sales data, the 2012 model is performing quite handsomely, having sold 234,029 units through September of this year, with 21,546 of those units coming last month alone. That means Honda is shifting almost 40-percent more units this year than the (admittedly aging) eighth-generation model did in 2011. The Civic is now selling near the top of its class, and Hendley notes that the company's Indiana plant will be running at full-tilt to build the updated 2013 model – in fact, he indicates that the US will even draw units from Canadian production.
When contacted for comment about the Hendley dealer letter, Sage Marie, Honda's Senior Manager of Public Relations, confirmed to Autoblog that the automaker will have Civic news to reveal next month, noting that Honda is keen "to ensure Civic remains the benchmark in the segment and remains as competitive as it can be."
No need to feel sorry for me. Just because I recognize that it isn't a compact and doesn't drive like one doesn't mean I wasn't able to get the most of it. But if you want an actual point-and-shoot car that actually feels like a compact but still doesn't have the hard edge of an Evo or STi, look no further than their stablemates, the Ralliart and WRX. Even without being hard-nosed street racers like their high-strung siblings, they still make the MS6 feel like the mid-sizer it is.
So by that logic only compacts can point and shoot. Great! I autocrossed the MS6 regularly and I point it and it shot. I beat the regular WRX and Civic SI and even the MS3 on a regular basis. I never said it drove like a compact but I'm not going to assume that it's a dull and understeering failure. Then again, I got the most out of it. I ran with EVO 9s and the WRX STI on the track as well. If you couldn't then that isn't my problem. That's how I know I got the most out of it. I may have a higher standard of most but whatever.
I drove the Ralliart and I consider it an insult to me even consider one and the WRX is too juvenile for me though not nearly as much as the STI. Your recommendation will not be considered (by me at least) but I know that the car goes where I put it and if you can't do that then I would deem that to be a driver problem.
The best years of the Civic Si are 2006-2007 Si's. The newer ones are not as nice.
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