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Old 03-28-2013, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Wappingers Falls, NY
1,586 posts, read 1,941,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs View Post
alot of you are forgetting that Honda did bring the Si hatch back from 02-05, and it didnt sell all that well. I actually bought a 04 Civic Si hatch a couple months ago. it's my first Honda, and I'm really enjoying it. It's gutless, but it handles very well, which makes up for the lack of power.
It's not "gutless" per se, you just have to rev the thing to get power. Those had what, a 9000 RPM redline? The powerband is somewhere north of 4k I think. American drivers just aren't used to that, arguably that's what caused the lack of popularity, rather than the hatch bodystyle. Toyota ran into the same problem with one of their Celica engines didn't they?
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,435 posts, read 52,425,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raveabouttoast View Post
Can't say I'm a fan of that particular car, but it does seem that the US gets a lot of the boring, bloated cars with few options compared to the overseas markets.

It's too bad cause there are a lot of cars (and trucks) available with manual transmissions, diesel engines, wagon/hatchback versions that we simply can't get here without paying a huge import tax.
The same is true with motorcycles. More good commuting choices overseas.
Here it's the same bunch of sport bikes and heavy-ass cruisers.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:09 AM
 
Location: anywhere but Seattle
1,082 posts, read 1,892,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs View Post
alot of you are forgetting that Honda did bring the Si hatch back from 02-05, and it didnt sell all that well. I actually bought a 04 Civic Si hatch a couple months ago. it's my first Honda, and I'm really enjoying it. It's gutless, but it handles very well, which makes up for the lack of power.
It didn't sell because it had 160hp, 15" wheels with narrow tires, brake rotors the size of tea cups, soft suspension and it looked like something that came from the rear end of a cow. There was nothing SI about it. It was the beginning of the end of Honda.


Why no second generation S2000?
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Cole neighborhood, Denver, CO
1,123 posts, read 2,446,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evergraystate View Post
Hey for 2014 you can get a Honda Odyssey with a built in vacuum cleaner. Thats some real cutting edge innovation. Nothing boring about that... right?
Not very cutting edge, considering my mom's old Astro van had a 'dustbuster'

As for a second gen S2000, Mr. Ito has said in interviews that the success of the FR-S/BRZ has not eluded him. Honda has worked on DI technology and now have it in the new Accord. They still have the S2000 platform so it is only a matter of time before we see a competitor to the FR-S/BRZ with DI and a Honda badge.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Wappingers Falls, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_reino View Post
Not very cutting edge, considering my mom's old Astro van had a 'dustbuster'

As for a second gen S2000, Mr. Ito has said in interviews that the success of the FR-S/BRZ has not eluded him. Honda has worked on DI technology and now have it in the new Accord. They still have the S2000 platform so it is only a matter of time before we see a competitor to the FR-S/BRZ with DI and a Honda badge.
That's nice, because the success of the CRZ has in fact eluded him, along with anyone else.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Cole neighborhood, Denver, CO
1,123 posts, read 2,446,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npaladin2000 View Post
That's nice, because the success of the CRZ has in fact eluded him, along with anyone else.
I said BRZ...as in the Subaru.

The CR-Z has not been successful at all.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Wappingers Falls, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_reino View Post
I said BRZ...as in the Subaru.

The CR-Z has not been successful at all.
I know, that's the point I was attempting to make in a witty and sarcastic way.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,767 posts, read 13,310,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evergraystate View Post
It didn't sell because it had 160hp, 15" wheels with narrow tires, brake rotors the size of tea cups, soft suspension and it looked like something that came from the rear end of a cow. There was nothing SI about it. It was the beginning of the end of Honda.
I was actually pretty happy that they finally gave us a US-market Si/Type-R hatch; it just sucks that it happened to be the least-attractive design to that point... :/

It also lacked a limited slip differential, had McPherson struts instead of double wishbone suspension, and poor gearing for performance-oriented driving (though the gearbox certainly felt nice); all in all, it was pretty soundly inferior to its predecessor, and its successor.

They're certainly great tuners and can be made to be really awesome cars, but in stock form, they were a disappointment.

Quote:
Why no second generation S2000?
It was a combination of the economic downturn and Honda's stated decision to start putting its weight behind hybrids and other green technologies, which was an ill-advised move. Axing the second-generation S model, combined with the lack of an NSX successor, left Honda without a halo car; combining this with the dumbing-down of the most recent Si and the introduction of the Crosstrek and Insight, both of which were ugly and misguided attempts to ride the coattails of other Japanese manufacturers' success in niche markets they didn't have a foothold in (the Toyota Prius and Subaru Outback, respectively), and you had a clear message that they were changing directions, and not necessarily ones that it should have made.

Last edited by 415_s2k; 03-28-2013 at 01:42 PM..
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:54 PM
 
Location: WNC
1,488 posts, read 2,198,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npaladin2000 View Post
It's not "gutless" per se, you just have to rev the thing to get power. Those had what, a 9000 RPM redline? The powerband is somewhere north of 4k I think. American drivers just aren't used to that, arguably that's what caused the lack of popularity, rather than the hatch bodystyle. Toyota ran into the same problem with one of their Celica engines didn't they?

Well it is gutless... But I also drive a modded WRX so that's why it feels that way to me. And it redlines just a tick below 7k.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Wappingers Falls, NY
1,586 posts, read 1,941,447 times
Reputation: 1059
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
It was a combination of the economic downturn and Honda's stated decision to start putting its weight behind hybrids and other green technologies, which was an ill-advised move. Axing the second-generation S model, combined with the lack of an NSX successor, left Honda without a halo car; combining this with the dumbing-down of the most recent Si and the introduction of the Crosstrek and Insight, both of which were ugly and misguided attempts to ride the coattails of other Japanese manufacturers' success in niche markets they didn't have a foothold in (the Toyota Prius and Subaru Outback, respectively), and you had a clear message that they were changing directions, and not necessarily ones that it should have made.
That was a huge mistake on their part. Ford already had a toehold in the enthusiast market, and some of the Civic tuner love ended up transitioning to Focuses. More importantly, Kia seems to be a little hungry for enthusiasts, the new Forte seems to be designed to pick up some of that market.
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