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Old 09-11-2013, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,895,412 times
Reputation: 4846

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuoykcuf23 View Post
$40K for an Accord is a bit too much to swallow in my book. Seems like a bit of false economy to me. It's the same reason that Chevy can't sell the Volt.
No one pays $40k for a Volt, in fact, average transaction prices are under $30k. Chevy has sold over 40,000 Volts and Amperas so far (over 30,000 of them Volts right here in the US). The reason it doesn't sell MORE is that they don't market it well. The latest "ad" is a bit inside a full line ad where you see a fawn nuzzling up to a robot dog. How the hell is that supposed to sell a car? The OWNERS sell the car more than GM does (one of the highest owner sartisfaction ratings of any car). And if you go into a GM dealer looking at a Volt, the sales force knows nothing about the cars and try to steer you to a Cruze instead.

Again, my Volt is saving me $200 a month vs my previous car, so it's not a false economy, it's real. And it even is saving money vs the paid off car I had before that. That it also is a luxurious place to be in when driving (quiet, comfy, silent torque that is surprisingly quick, lot's of gadgets, etc) is part of the appeal.

If you're going to buy new anyhow, why buy a penalty box when you can, in fact, have your cake and eat it, too, as the old saying goes.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,895,412 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by adyn View Post
I just bought a loaded 2013 titanium focus, I don't disagree with wanting a nice car to putt around in. When the price of hybrids/EVs come down and performance goes up, they'll be worth looking at for me. Till then, my 30 city will do fine.
Your Focus Titanium was almost as much as my Volt. I'm paying $300 a month for the Volt, but not paying for gasoline (and only $10-20/mo for electricity). And there are no maintenance costs. Oh, and under 50 mph, it's quicker than your Focus, as it has 280 lb ft of torque vailable right off idle. It is as quick as my old BMW 740i and it feels almost as quick as the Mustang GT I traded in on it.
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:19 AM
 
Location: New Market, MD
2,082 posts, read 2,597,411 times
Reputation: 2603
Quote:
Originally Posted by f.2 View Post
That looks like low to high 40 mpg. My 2004 Civic 4 door automatic EX gets low to mid 40 mpg city / highway mixed, 180,000 + miles tracked. Those Prius numbers aren't all that great.

Looks like you have got a rare-fuel-saving civic! Or maybe your calculations are wrong or may be you think you do a lot of city driving but that's not the case + a bit of miscalculation.
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Henderson, NV, U.S.A.
10,177 posts, read 6,143,740 times
Reputation: 17963
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_1976 View Post
Looks like you have got a rare-fuel-saving civic! Or maybe your calculations are wrong or may be you think you do a lot of city driving but that's not the case + a bit of miscalculation.
it's not rocket science. fill tank. never add more after auto fill clicks off. and i never, say never. log miles. zero trip odo. divide miles by gallons. mpg. i've calculated every tank fill since purchase april 2004. milage gets better during hot months. worst during winter.

here's the last few fills:

8.29 / 486.8 miles / 11.646 gal / 41.80 mpg
8.13 / 454.4 miles / 10.492 gal / 43.31 mpg
7.29 / 459.6 miles / 10.053 gal / 45.71 mpg
7.15 / 466.9 miles / 10.500 gal / 44.46 mpg
6.26 / 502.1 miles / 11.818 gal / 42.48 mpg
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:27 AM
 
Location: New Market, MD
2,082 posts, read 2,597,411 times
Reputation: 2603
Quote:
Originally Posted by f.2 View Post
it's not rocket science. fill tank. never add more after auto fill clicks off. and i never, say never. log miles. zero trip odo. divide miles by gallons. mpg. i've calculated every tank fill since purchase april 2004. milage gets better during hot months. worst during winter.

here's the last few fills:

8.29 / 486.8 miles / 11.646 gal / 41.80 mpg
8.13 / 454.4 miles / 10.492 gal / 43.31 mpg
7.29 / 459.6 miles / 10.053 gal / 45.71 mpg
7.15 / 466.9 miles / 10.500 gal / 44.46 mpg
6.26 / 502.1 miles / 11.818 gal / 42.48 mpg

OK if you say so. BTW - what does "never add after auto fill" has to do with calculation?
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:08 PM
 
5,532 posts, read 5,939,774 times
Reputation: 3154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
Some of us simply don't want to use gas in our day to day commute, yet still want a nice car to drive. I like the torque of the electric motor, the fact that I save over $200 a month in fuel over my previous car, have a nice car to be in for the commute and daily driving, and yet can, if necessary, drive long distances when I want to. That's the appeal of a plug in hybrid. i drove for 5 months without using any gasoline or diesel and then took a 900+ mile road trip and got 50 mpg doing it. Now I'm back to using no fuel on the commute.

So a Corvette and a bunch of fuel really is beside the point.

We kind of discussed this in teh "why do you hate to work on your car" thread. My daily driver/commuter is going to be a new car with a waranty, not a cheap old beater that i have to work on to get back and forth to work. So, that being said, I want a nicely equipped car if I'm going to spend the money on a new car, AND I'd like to drive without using fuel as much as possible, as I don't support the war for oil or the OPEC oil masters that contribute to setting oil pricing. I'd be fine if we could reduce our demand to the point where we could supply all our own oil needs (and that includes home heating oil, a big portion of the nation's petroleum usage annually), and I'm happy to contribute to that reduced oil demand.
You are delusional if you think your car plus 10000 more like you are going to make any difference with OPEC. The total number of electric/ hybrids on the road will be about 10% in 20 years. The practical impact is very low or non-existant, but makes people feel good.
1) You pay much more upfront.
2) The gasoline savings are negligible (at least the first 3-4 years) compared to the MSRP difference. The regular Accord and Civic are quite fuel efficient.
3) You haul a stack of batteries which are heavy, poluting and poisonous (I worked professionaly with batteries and its simply nasty stuff).
4) When your car will need repairs - the electric components will require a specialized shop and be very expensive to fix.

Anyway, good luck with the car.
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:15 PM
 
Location: New Market, MD
2,082 posts, read 2,597,411 times
Reputation: 2603
I like your point # 2 specially when I read it after 1! I have to believe # 3 because you worked professional with batteries. Trying too hard to make a point??
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:18 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,524,755 times
Reputation: 18035
My problem having dealt with rechargeable batteries and their problems is the problems I have seen and degrading of performance as they age as to output and capacity.In the most advanced even one cell goes bad can ruin a pack and these cars have a lot of cells.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Powell, Oh
1,847 posts, read 4,059,203 times
Reputation: 1073
I would love a fully electric vehicle.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,895,412 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon_1 View Post
You are delusional if you think your car plus 10000 more like you are going to make any difference with OPEC. The total number of electric/ hybrids on the road will be about 10% in 20 years. The practical impact is very low or non-existant, but makes people feel good.
So does sourcing our electric from solar and wind. We pay extra to subsidize that for many reasons, and yes, it does make you feel good about the future. And, every little bit helps and if no one did it, there woudl be no change. There is no trip without at least STARTING down the road. if youre not starting down that raod, youre part of the problem. Sorry, but that's the truth.



Quote:
1) You pay much more upfront.
Actually not, especially as a lease.

Quote:
2) The gasoline savings are negligible (at least the first 3-4 years) compared to the MSRP difference.
Again, not in comparison to the car I already was paying for. Thats the part you don't get. And are too blind to even TRY to get. Compared to a car I was paying $300 a month for and paying $200+ a month for gas for, I'm saving $200+ a month RIGHT OFF THE BAT ($2400+ a year, or $7200+ over the life of the lease) , as my car payment has stayed the same but my fuel bill has gone away (and my insurance actually dropped by $30/month so there's even more savings)

Think about it for a moment before you respond.

And, as I said, compared to the 12 year old car I had before that was already paid off, I'm STILL not spending any more per month to own it, when repairs and maintenance to the older car are taken into account, and now I have a new car with a waranty that's actually nicer to be in and drive. THAT'S also a part you don't take into account.


Quote:
3) You haul a stack of batteries which are heavy, poluting and poisonous (I worked professionaly with batteries and its simply nasty stuff).
Actually Lithium-ion are NOT polluting and poisonous, and are emminently recyclable. We're not talking about lead acid, Nickle Cadmium, or Nickle Metal Hydride. And the newer Lithium Polymer and Lithium Air are even cleaner to get (the new process of getting lithium from geothermal pressurized evaporation tanks in Nevada will have almost zero environemntal impact and can generate more lithium in a week than is generated all year at a current lithium facility, like the evaporation ponds in Argentina.

I don't think you've ever worked with Li-Ion batteries.


Quote:

4) When your car will need repairs - the electric components will require a specialized shop and be very expensive to fix.
People have been saying that about every new computer controlle bit in cars since electronic fuel injection and ABS started to be available. it's not proven to be true yet, as hobbyists and tuners and the aftermarket have always beenable to come up with other ways to diagnose and work on cars.

For example, I already know one guy working on Volts that has cracked the main computer and can tune the car the same way that a tuning module gets plugged into a modern performance car to get more power out of it. If I wasn't leasing mine, I'd be all over it already (the main computer cannot be "bricked' due to the way it's hardware is manufacturerd, so tuning is a matter of getting the internal codes for what controls what, just like they do with fuel maps in a modern Corvette or Mustang).
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