Kitchen cabinets (overlay, how much, Lowes, laminate)
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I have cabinets on the brain. I've read so many kitchen cabinets post that I'm going crosseyed. But man have I found out some great information. They have also made me question some of my decisions. I didn't even know that some doors within the same cabinet company line can be veneer or solid centers. After looking back at some pricing posted here..I'm wondering if I'm buying junk. The 2 cabinet companies mainly sell Aristokraft and quoted me the same within $300. I'm getting cabinets for a 10x13 L kitchen with an island. Particle board box..maple/cocoa glazing..dovetail drawers and pull out lower cabinets for $4100. Am I missing something? Seems way to low compared to others on here. Lowe's quoted $8000 for Kraftmaid (which I think is similar to AK).
I would like to explore Merillat since there lead time is so short but the closest one listed seems to be out of business and the next closest just started selling it and doesn't have any samples to view. Don't know how they plan to sell it. They said I can request a sample but that is a pain. I like having all of the door styles in the different colors up where I can put my eyes on them all.
Do I need to step up in quality? If so, the locals offer woodmode, omega, and armstrong. Where do these fall in the range of better or worse than each other and AristoKraft?
I loved the Shenandoah cabinets at Lowes in vanilla cream w/hazelnut glazing..but after some googling found alot of bad review for Shenandoah. Anybody else have any experience with them?
Last edited by ~Pajama mama~; 11-24-2011 at 08:46 AM..
Reason: Added
Kitchen cabinets are one of the few remaining "throwback" products whose pricing reflects a day gone by.
There is retail price which no one pays. There is big box pricing that DIY people with a really small job pay and then there is "discount" pricing all over the map.
My homebuilder clients pay 30%to 50% of retail list price. So a $350 cabinet base really is costing the, a little more than $100. This is so the installers can build some profit into your job.
Most manufacturers are in desperate straights due to the collapse of the homebuilding business. That is the mainstay of their business. I would suggest that you go to a manufacturers showroom and pick your cabinets. They all have installers available.
I suppose most of us would like to see a wood box and solid doors, but only you know how long they have to last and how much wear an tear they will get. A house with a bunch of kids need some durable bases and particle bases are generally not as durable as dimensional lumber.
I think you should be able to get a 36" all wood cabinet base with two solid doors for about $300 if that marker helps. Of course, the design is a thing these mfg's are really good at and their CAD software will spec all your cabinets for you.
I have cabinets on the brain. I've read so many kitchen cabinets post that I'm going crosseyed. But man have I found out some great information. They have also made me question some of my decisions. I didn't even know that some doors within the same cabinet company line can be veneer or solid centers. After looking back at some pricing posted here..I'm wondering if I'm buying junk. The 2 cabinet companies mainly sell Aristokraft and quoted me the same within $300. I'm getting cabinets for a 10x13 L kitchen with an island. Particle board box..maple/cocoa glazing..dovetail drawers and pull out lower cabinets for $4100. Am I missing something? Seems way to low compared to others on here. Lowe's quoted $8000 for Kraftmaid (which I think is similar to AK).
I would like to explore Merillat since there lead time is so short but the closest one listed seems to be out of business and the next closest just started selling it and doesn't have any samples to view. Don't know how they plan to sell it. They said I can request a sample but that is a pain. I like having all of the door styles in the different colors up where I can put my eyes on them all.
Do I need to step up in quality? If so, the locals offer woodmode, omega, and armstrong. Where do these fall in the range of better or worse than each other and AristoKraft?
I loved the Shenandoah cabinets at Lowes in vanilla cream w/hazelnut glazing..but after some googling found alot of bad review for Shenandoah. Anybody else have any experience with them?
Wilson it's good to have some one else who knows their stuff. Just don't ever recommend Home Shidpo again or you will lose respect among your peers. You seem like a great guy!!
PJ: I agree that researching cabinets can leave you cross eyed and I'm in the biz for over 3 decades. In the end all the cabinet is is a box. A damn wooden box. All the value is in the face frame, door and drawer face. The Aristocraft you mentioned and the Kraftmaid you mention are not really any different behind the face. But Kraftmaid will have a finish on the face second to none. A finishing process unmatched by none but Woodmode is a very close second. Don't waste all your money on a thick wooden box. A cabinet holds up a counter top, not a 3 story building.
If you want to lose the pupils in your eyes and see them turn to dollar signs then look at Woodmode and Kraftmaid. If you want to trade your first born and your IRA then buy from the big orange who only wants your little green.
Yes Merillat has the shortest lead time on earth. Pay Monday and your new kitchen is delivered to your door the following Monday. They are the oldest and largest cabinet company in the world. But guess what, back to the "just a box" theory. Merillat, Kraftmaid and Quality are all the same company owned by Masco. Same box with all interchangeable box components except the face frame. The face, doors and drawers will all be unique to the brand. In my eyes and some quarter million cabinets sold over 30 plus years later, Merillat is still the best for the money. I just can not justify any other brand with all facts considered.
Do not always be afraid of a low price. I carry Kitchen Kompact brand which is very very very inexpensive. Almost as cheap as the formaldehyde and sulfur infested China made junk that are causing great health issues to those who buy them. But just because Kitchen Kompact is cheap does not mean they are junk. They are KCMA certified as well as HUD certified and all wood box. They are inexpensive because the product line is limited and the color choices are few. This keeps cost way way down. Kitchen Kompact may well be a better stronger box then Merillat but Merillat has a thousand different colors, door styles and options where Kitchen Kompact has just 3....period.
Woodmode, Omega are way way up there in price. Only brand more expensive is Poggenpohl. A $5000 Merillat kitchen would become $60,000 for the identical kitchen in Poggenpohl. And they are ugly!!!! Armstrong is just fine. They mostly cater to apartment complexes or big senior housing. Much of their cabinets are not wood but rubber wood from the rubber tree in south America. It's very heavy and durable and strong as can be. I like it really. They used to go under the name Triangle Pacific then later IXL Cabinets. All the same.
I don't know where you are in PA but may I suggest going to Just Cabinets. They have 21 locations of which about 10 are in PA. They do discount from list heavy and carry Kraftmaid and Quality as well as another one or 2 that seems to change from time to time. You can trust they give a fair deal and actually have certified Kitchen Designers on staff......UNLIKE the big box stores who do not. Those big stores only employ cabinet salespeople who's only home improvement experience amounts to hanging a curtain rod for Grandma.
Hope this helps. If you wish to learn more you can go to my web site where I have parts from my published book under the HOW TO BUY section. You will get 30 years education in 15 minutes.
Kitchen cabinets are one of the few remaining "throwback" products whose pricing reflects a day gone by.
There is retail price which no one pays. There is big box pricing that DIY people with a really small job pay and then there is "discount" pricing all over the map.
My homebuilder clients pay 30%to 50% of retail list price. So a $350 cabinet base really is costing the, a little more than $100. This is so the installers can build some profit into your job.
Most manufacturers are in desperate straights due to the collapse of the homebuilding business. That is the mainstay of their business. I would suggest that you go to a manufacturers showroom and pick your cabinets. They all have installers available.
I suppose most of us would like to see a wood box and solid doors, but only you know how long they have to last and how much wear an tear they will get. A house with a bunch of kids need some durable bases and particle bases are generally not as durable as dimensional lumber.
I think you should be able to get a 36" all wood cabinet base with two solid doors for about $300 if that marker helps. Of course, the design is a thing these mfg's are really good at and their CAD software will spec all your cabinets for you.
Hi Wilson..thanks. Makes sense about the economy affecting prices. I have never priced cabinets so would'nt have a clue as to whether they were more or less now. As far as durability..with 3 boys it's a must.
Desertsun, You obviously know what you are doing when it comes to cabinets. I have been a Merrilat fan for years, and put them in many homes. But for an upcoming project, I need Laminate faced Cabinets, and cannot find them anywhere. Any ideas?
Wilson it's good to have some one else who knows their stuff. Just don't ever recommend Home Shidpo again or you will lose respect among your peers. You seem like a great guy!!
PJ: I agree that researching cabinets can leave you cross eyed and I'm in the biz for over 3 decades. In the end all the cabinet is is a box. A damn wooden box. All the value is in the face frame, door and drawer face. The Aristocraft you mentioned and the Kraftmaid you mention are not really any different behind the face. But Kraftmaid will have a finish on the face second to none. A finishing process unmatched by none but Woodmode is a very close second. Don't waste all your money on a thick wooden box. A cabinet holds up a counter top, not a 3 story building.
If you want to lose the pupils in your eyes and see them turn to dollar signs then look at Woodmode and Kraftmaid. If you want to trade your first born and your IRA then buy from the big orange who only wants your little green.
Yes Merillat has the shortest lead time on earth. Pay Monday and your new kitchen is delivered to your door the following Monday. They are the oldest and largest cabinet company in the world. But guess what, back to the "just a box" theory. Merillat, Kraftmaid and Quality are all the same company owned by Masco. Same box with all interchangeable box components except the face frame. The face, doors and drawers will all be unique to the brand. In my eyes and some quarter million cabinets sold over 30 plus years later, Merillat is still the best for the money. I just can not justify any other brand with all facts considered.
Do not always be afraid of a low price. I carry Kitchen Kompact brand which is very very very inexpensive. Almost as cheap as the formaldehyde and sulfur infested China made junk that are causing great health issues to those who buy them. But just because Kitchen Kompact is cheap does not mean they are junk. They are KCMA certified as well as HUD certified and all wood box. They are inexpensive because the product line is limited and the color choices are few. This keeps cost way way down. Kitchen Kompact may well be a better stronger box then Merillat but Merillat has a thousand different colors, door styles and options where Kitchen Kompact has just 3....period.
Woodmode, Omega are way way up there in price. Only brand more expensive is Poggenpohl. A $5000 Merillat kitchen would become $60,000 for the identical kitchen in Poggenpohl. And they are ugly!!!! Armstrong is just fine. They mostly cater to apartment complexes or big senior housing. Much of their cabinets are not wood but rubber wood from the rubber tree in south America. It's very heavy and durable and strong as can be. I like it really. They used to go under the name Triangle Pacific then later IXL Cabinets. All the same.
I don't know where you are in PA but may I suggest going to Just Cabinets. They have 21 locations of which about 10 are in PA. They do discount from list heavy and carry Kraftmaid and Quality as well as another one or 2 that seems to change from time to time. You can trust they give a fair deal and actually have certified Kitchen Designers on staff......UNLIKE the big box stores who do not. Those big stores only employ cabinet salespeople who's only home improvement experience amounts to hanging a curtain rod for Grandma.
Hope this helps. If you wish to learn more you can go to my web site where I have parts from my published book under the HOW TO BUY section. You will get 30 years education in 15 minutes.
Good luck
Well howdy Desert..thanks for responding. The closet Just Cabinets is over 2 hrs away. The cabinet companies that are convenient sell Aristokraft. Lowe's has Kraftmaid but I just googled and found a dealer not to far away. I will go get a quote from them this weekend. So in your opinion..between Aristokraft and Kraftmaid..which is the better cabinet? I'm thinking Kraftmaid..but what do you think about Aristokraft?
My other question is about the doors. I'm going with the MFD boxes and using the savings to upgrade in other areas..like glazing..dovetail etc. Where I'm not sure is if it's worth the money to upgrade from veneer center doors to solid wood centers?
Desertsun, You obviously know what you are doing when it comes to cabinets. I have been a Merrilat fan for years, and put them in many homes. But for an upcoming project, I need Laminate faced Cabinets, and cannot find them anywhere. Any ideas?
Everyone, well most every major manufacturer carries lam doors. But since you like Merillat lets go there.
Anyone can be delivered to your door in 5 business days from where ever you live in the USA except Texas where it will take 10. Don't ask. Still 4 weeks faster then any other brand.
Well howdy Desert..thanks for responding. The closet Just Cabinets is over 2 hrs away. The cabinet companies that are convenient sell Aristokraft. Lowe's has Kraftmaid but I just googled and found a dealer not to far away. I will go get a quote from them this weekend. So in your opinion..between Aristokraft and Kraftmaid..which is the better cabinet? I'm thinking Kraftmaid..but what do you think about Aristokraft?
My other question is about the doors. I'm going with the MFD boxes and using the savings to upgrade in other areas..like glazing..dovetail etc. Where I'm not sure is if it's worth the money to upgrade from veneer center doors to solid wood centers?
I know Lowes and Home Junkpo has Kraftmaid but you will pay full list price or MSRP. That's like buying a new car at the dealer and paying the window sticker price. If anyone does that then I can sell them the Golden Gate Bridge for a good ol price of $100. No one pays MSRP except in places like Macy's or Dillard's...or the home improvement stores. You ever see and hear those ads by car dealers shouting PAY JUST ONE DOLLAR OVER STICKER PRICE? If anyone falls for that then I must beg them to not vote as well as stay the hell off the same roads that I drive. That dummy is just not smart enough to breath if it weren't for God's gift of instinct.
Aristakraft is fine. It's an average cabinet. Do not be afraid of it if you feel you get a god price and they have the colors and door styles you seek. And this brand is not expensive. Kraftmaid you will have to dig very deep to buy them. Kraftmaid has 33 price levels and while the lowest few are very affordable, they climb quickly as door styles improve. For example. List price on a B30 is say $600 for price level 1. For price level 33 the cost rose to $2100 for the same B30. And for that B30 you will pay list price or MSRP in the big box stores. Most all small kitchen dealers will discount up to 50% off list.
You ever walk through the mall and see all those jewelry stores with banners advertising 50% off? 60 off? 70 off? 80 off? How do they do that? The average consumer thinks they mark up the price then discount it. No. They have a list price book published by the manufacturer which has MSRP or manufacturers suggested retail price. See that magic word "suggested" It means just that. Only very expensive places charge list. There is a spread between wholesale (what the dealer buys at) and retail (what the dealer sells at). Everything in between is the profit margin. Most of us choose to discount and get more business rather then sell one a month and rape that consumer.
So how do jewelry stores sell for 80% off list price? Because they buy for 5 cents on a dollar. I like to use jewelry as an example because the spread is so high but cabinets are not far off. At 50% off list I'm still doing very well. So here again, find discount jewelry stores. Go to that big name jewelry store in the mall and expect to pay full list MSRP price. That is insane!!!! That $4000 wedding ring can be bought for $2000 at a discount store and the dealer will still make a thousand profit on you.
You want my opinion between Aristokrat and Kraftmaid? This is not my opinion at all. The fact is Kraftmaid blows them all away.......but at a price. I carry Kraftmaid but it just sits there. No one wants it, too expensive and my store is in the 2nd most expensive zip code in my city of 4 million population.
Be careful what you buy. During these economic depression times when our homes are losing value by the day and will continue to do so for years to come, it just don't make sense to put so much money into such high quality. What sells a home is a brand new kitchen that is attractive and functional. Few home buyers care or even know the difference if you have a Kraftmaid kitchen or a junky Debut or Legacy kitchen. (now that's some junk cabinets). So stay away from expensive cherry with glazes and fancy doors. Unless you are wealthy of course, then it don't matter.
Just to steer you a bit. For 2+ years now, the shaker door style is the hottest selling door in America and Canada by far. Nothing else is close. Forget about color and wood species, the shaker door rules right now. As for color? Very dark browns. Our best seller is Merillat Kona. Sales of white is non existent much to my delight, cherry sales are rare anymore. maple is the best seller with the dark colors.
Oak is out yet remains the best selling cabinet in the USA and Canada. Not because people like it, because they don't. But Builders offer it standard and are still the largest buyers of stock cabinets.
Enough info? I don't mind answering questions. I get as much joy from helping as you reading it. I answer dozens of messages each and every night. The best questions I post on my FAQ page.
Good luck!
Last edited by desertsun41; 11-25-2011 at 12:12 PM..
Anyone can be delivered to your door in 5 business days from where ever you live in the USA except Texas where it will take 10. Don't ask. Still 4 weeks faster then any other brand.
I guess I should have been more specific, I am looking for a laminate slab door similar the the Merrilat Masterpiece, Glencoe, but in a red laminate.
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But man have I found out some great information. They have also made me question some of my decisions. I didn't even know that some doors within the same cabinet company line can be veneer or solid centers. After looking back at some pricing posted here..I'm wondering if I'm buying junk. The 2 cabinet companies mainly sell Aristokraft and quoted me the same within $300. I'm getting cabinets for a 10x13 L kitchen with an island. Particle board box..maple/cocoa glazing..dovetail drawers and pull out lower cabinets for $4100. Am I missing something? Seems way to low compared to others on here. Lowe's quoted $8000 for Kraftmaid (which I think is similar to AK).
