No hot water or heat

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by dijkstra

My guess is the heat quit working first which allowed some of the areas where water pipes are to get cold which in turn led to the hot water side freezing.

AHA!, sometimes the obvious is so easily overlooked.

[QIS]

Please make sure you have a plumber come out as well as having your furnace serviced! Frozen can pipes expand and crack and some could be that way under the coach. Would you mind sharing what city you are near or in?

[akck]

Also check the supply side to your water heater. With the heat out, there might be a section more exposed to a cold area. You can use a hair blow dryer to thaw them, but be prepared for leaks. Your cold side may not have frozen because there were enough "leaks" to ensure some flow (toilet or dripping sink). I suggest you leave your cold water running a bit to keep it from freezing until you get your heat back on (leave it on at night too after the heat is on).

[GnBanditoCI5]

Hey Guys,

Here is a possible reason as well, I had this happen to our Propane Furnace last winter, so I would/could assume that it would also apply to a propane hot water tank as well.

The problem we had was that the furnace shut off completely, well...the heat blowing part anyway...the fan still fired up and it was blowing cold air only, the blower part is electric and not governed by propane etc.

Anyway, no matter what I could not get the furnace to fire up, I cant remember if the pilot light lit, just not the main burner?!? Or if the pilot light was out as well....Id be lying to you if I said either way....

However, either way...the main burner was not lighting and therefore it was not blowing any heat (cold air only).

So to troubleshoot the issue, I went to the gas stove to see if it would light up....it did NOT!!!

So ok...Next step...am I out of propane or something???....NOPE...the pressure gage on the tanks read 83%. Also, please note that this home was a 4 year old (we got it new) double-wide trailer, err...mobile home...lol. So therefore it was running on a dual tank propane system. I never owned a REAL house, but I would guess that they can and do run on propane tanks as well...I guess optionally a mobile home COULD run on another source of fuel as well??...I dunno...lol

Anyway, So there I am, no heat from furnace, cant get the main burner to light, and no gas coming out of the stove either!! However, there is 83% worth of propane in the tanks....basically full, thus not the issue as previously discussed in this thread about having low pressure due to the tank being low on propane etc.

So ok...now that I have outlined the dilemma....here is what I did....

Ok...so no gas coming out of the stove....hmmm...is the main feed line damaged maybe due to a chunk of ice sliding off the roof or something? Is it leaking, thus making it have low/no pressure? Well, my thoughts on that question would be NO, because if the line WAS leaking...then I most likely would NOT still have 83% in the tanks...lol

So what next?....Well, this makes me think about (Also previously discussed in this thread) about "Is the propane "FROZEN"??

Well, although I did like Science in High School, I was FAR from being a chemist ...lol, However, somewhere along the line, I DID remember learning that for a GAS (Vapor) to actually "FREEZE" it would have to be "PRETTY DAMN COLD"...I dont know the exact numbers....but Im guessing it would have to be so damn cold an Eskimo would say "HOLY CRAP ITS FREEKIN COOOLD !!!!" lmao... My point being, much colder than it would probably EVER get even here in upstate New York!!!

So unless your reading this thread from the comfort of your igloo in Antarctica ....I am assuming that your/my propane is NOT frozen!!...lol

With that said....that "DOESN'T" mean that something being "FROZEN" still couldn't be the issue!!

And here is what I mean.....Although the "GAS" (Propane) may not be frozen, what "COULD BE" frozen is the moisture (CONDENSATION) "IN" the "GAS"....more specifically "IN THE LINES" etc. Just like the moisture you can get in the gasoline in your cars fuel tank/lines, thus the purpose for "DRY GAS", and how it as well can "FREEZE" and give you headaches with your car running....or not !!

Well, the same applies to propane gas, the moisture can/and does freeze....

So, just as in a car, when the moisture freezes, it tends to do so in the "MOVING PARTS", seals, valves etc.....well "Where the hell are their (MOVING PARTS) in a homes propane system you ask?!? Well...I am SO GLAD you asked !!!

The answer is in a nutshell...."NOT VERY MANY"....which is actually a good thing for troubleshooting purposes anyway!!

Lets see...where to start?...from the beginning is usually the best bet !!..lol...and what I mean is...from the tanks themselves.....hmmm....moving parts....moving parts....hmmm....AHHH!!! the Valves to turn the gas on and off "ARE" moving parts....no?....

Not much to do here, maybe turn the valves off and back on...possibly breaking up any condensation freeze that may be present....ok...(CHECK)

Ok...moving parts....moving parts....hmmm!! ....well...if your propane system is like mine....when the gas company we use came to install the propane tanks, I asked them to physically locate them down at the far "END" of the trailer....along the "SIDE" of the trailer, and "NOT" along the back wall....personal preference due to future plans to build a deck outside along the back wall and not only would they have been in the way, lets be honest...they are a huge eyesore especially when you want to turn your yard into your proverbial garden of Eden....no??

So, I asked them to put the tanks at the "FAR" end of the trailer....the operative word being "FAR"....and what I mean by "FAR" is this....

The propane tanks were located at one end of the trailer...and the kitchen stove is located basically in the MIDDLE inside along the back wall, furthermore...the furnace is located at the opposite end of the trailer (opposite end from the propane tanks). Why does this information matter you may be wondering!?!

Well, here's why....

When you have your appliances such as stove and furnace physically located at a far distance from the tanks themselves...you run into a "PRESSURE" issue...or "LACK OF" pressure issue more specifically!! Sooo...what is done to rectify the lack of pressure issue, is that a "REGULATOR" is installed midline so as to equalize the pressure amongst your appliances.

The propane gas regulator is one of the most important parts of a propane gas system. The purpose of the regulator is to control the flow of gas and lower the pressure from the tank to the appliance(s) in the gas system. The regulator not only acts as a control regarding the flow and distribution of propane but also as a safety barrier between the high pressure of the tank and the end use appliance(s). Most will rightfully argue that the LP Gas regulator is the heart of any propane gas system.

Propane tank pressure can range from under 10 psig to over 200 psig. Residential applications will generally require 11 inches water column (amount of pressure required to push a column of water up 11 inches in a manometer, or about 6.3 ounces per square inch) and the regulator compensates for these pressure differences in the tank to supply a steady flow of required pressure to the household appliances. Not all applications are similar to that of residential use and will therefore utilize regulators for higher and lower pressures as required by the appliance(s). In summary, the purpose of a propane regulator is to "bottleneck" the propane down to a safe and usable pressure.

Here is an image of a few propane regulators so you know what to look for....I am sure they come in all shapes and sizes...but these look to be the most common as far as I know anyway...The one that I am referring to that I had issues with is the one in the middle on bottom, the black one!



Those wishing to know more about how a pressure regulator actually works (knowledge is power) ....you can check it out here:

Working Principle - Single Stage Pressure Regulator



And here is a great explanation as to how and why a propane regulator can and does freeze up...

Freezing Propane Regulators - Why is my Regulator Frozen?
Freezing and frosting of propane regulators is quite common and usually nothing to be concerned about provided everything is in working order and operating as it should. Frost can form on regulators connected to both propane cylinders and bulk (stationary) LP Gas tanks. If in doubt about the safety of your regulator, turn off the tank service valve and contact your propane company. Further reading will help propane users understand the reasoning and causes of a "freezing" regulator.

Freezing Regulators - Frost on LP Gas Regulator
During normal operation propane regulators can become covered in frost, which may alarm some users. While this "freezing" of the regulator may be a symptom of an actual problem, it usually is a sign that outside humidity is at a level capable of producing condensation. The only difference is, the condensation forming on a regulator is frozen. As described, propane regulators act as a barrier between high tank pressures and delivery pressure as required by downstream appliances and/or equipment.

Once a propane appliance is actively in use, the liquid propane in a tank or cylinder begins to boil. The propane vapor, as boiled off the top of the liquid begins its journey downstream to the point at which it is used. Before making its way to the LP Gas system piping, it passes through the regulator where its pressure is reduced to a usable level. Keep in mind that the regulator will only deliver a constant pressure on the outlet side while inlet pressures can significantly vary. As the propane passes through the regulator, it expands (resulting in sub zero temperatures) and causes the regulator to gradually reach the extremely cold temperature of the propane vapor passing through it. Depending on the temperature and humidity of the surrounding air, the regulator will produce condensation, much like that of a frozen mug or glass taken out of a freezer.

This is why, under normal operation in hot and humid climates, the external surface of a regulator will freeze and appear to be frozen or frosted. The rate at which propane is being withdrawn from the tank or cylinder will also cause the container to display a visible frost line, which indicates the liquid level of the propane within the tank.

Regulator Freezing - Problems
Although regulators can freeze under normal and "proper" operating conditions, there are times when regulators are freezing because of actual problems. One of the problematic issues causing a regulator to freeze is due to liquid propane entering and passing through the regulator. Liquid propane can produce an effect of extreme freezing when introduced abruptly into a regulator. There are two ways that liquid can be delivered through the tank (or cylinder) service valve: 1) If the container is overfilled or, 2) If the tank, usually a bottle, is not upright with the service valve communicating with the vapor space of the container. Both of these scenarios are possible and while avoidable, are not very common.

These freezing regulator problems both involve one thing; that one factor is liquid propane. For this reason, cylinders and tanks should always be located and positioned as designed for use so that not only liquid propane is kept out of the regulator but also, is kept out of the downstream appliances designed to work with propane vapor. Additionally, regulators that are frozen due to tank or cylinder overfilling pose the same problem as an improperly positioned container. Propane cylinders equipped with OPD valves are designed to prevent this problem but cylinders and tanks that are not equipped with OPD valves can be filled completely with liquid propane and result in liquid flowing through the service valve, into the regulator and downstream to appliances designed to work with vapor. Again, this is not common and is not probable, but it is possible. If you feel that your tank has been overfilled by looking at the gauge, opening the bleeder valve and seeing the frost on the regulator, contact your propane company after closing the container service valve.

So, now that you know the hows and whys, it comes down to a simple decision, Is it the regulator that is indeed frozen ?

Well, I am not a home repair technician by no means....so my advise albeit very limited, is simply to go ahead and try thawing out the potentially frozen regulator...

The best way I found to accomplish this, and this is where I add my disclaimer... ***BE VERY VERY VERY CAREFULL*** , thawing out ANYTHING that has to do with the very explosive propane coursing through your home can indeed make your house go ***BOOM***.

With that said....Some recommend using very hot water to pour over top of the regulator, thus thawing it...however using water in a very cold situation which has already potentially froze the regulator WITHOUT water having been poured all over it....seems kinda umm...anti-productive to me anyway...lol

Here is what I did...I have one of those small box type portable electric heaters, almost like the one on the right in this picture...



Which by the way...you ALSO have to be VERY VERY careful using because it has coils that heat up and glow red, which i'm guessing can very easily ignite any leaking propane, so again...disclaimer...this is what "I DID" which dont mean that I am "RECOMMENDING" that you do it too...lol...ok..legal matters out of the way

Anyway, I took the heater...placed it next to the regulator...and then took a cardboard box and cut one side off and slid it up against the house over top of both the heater and regulator, thus containing both within the box, this allowed the maximum use of the heat generated by the heater and allowed the heat to envelop the regulator. Which took only about 15-20 minutes and upon going back to the stove, the burners lit up right away, as did the furnace burner.

So it was indeed that my regulator was frozen, and thawing it out rectified my issues.

So there ya have it people....my simple suggestion turned into a in detail, long ass "How to Guide", complete with pictures and videos....LMAO!!

Well, it was worth it to me taking the time to completely cover the subject as I am sure there are those out there that will benefit from the time I took to properly outline things!

I honestly hope that my guide DOES help....and again, PLEASE people..I cannot stress enough about being very very careful playing around propane!!

And there ya have it.....peace 4 now all !!