Contractor questions - should I expect better? (floor, roof, Lowes)

[minister]

I had a contractor from a reputable company come out to give me a quote on a few projects the other day. It was raining hard the day he came out, and three of the four projects I wanted done required him to be outside or go outside to get a look at what I wanted (deck, concrete work, driveway work). Problem is, he never stepped out into the rain.

Now I don't like standing in the rain, but shouldn't I expect him to get a bit wet to do an estimate for a new deck?

Here's the quotes - tell me what you think: Is this a rip off or is this accurate? I have no clue.

Primary Project A: I wanted to frame up a new interior wall to close off a room and put in french doors to make an office out of a open formal living room. Here's what he said about that:

- Frame Approx. 11’ Additional Interior Wall, Separating Entry and Dining Area
- Install 5’ Interior French Door Set, with Hardware, within Newly Framed Interior Wall
(Property Owner to Provide Door Hardware)
- Drywall, Tape, Float and Finish Newly Framed Interior Wall
- As Necessary, Install Paint Grade Casing for Interior French Door Set and Install Baseboard
- Apply Single Finish Coat Paint to Above Casing and Trim; Apply Single Base and Single Finish
Paint Coats to Newly Finished Drywall and Newly Installed French Door Set (to Insure
Satisfaction with Color/Coverage/Finish, Property Owner to Provide Paint Product)
Haul Away All Project Related Debris
$2,960.00 - Total Guaranteed Price*, Including All Labor and All Material (Exception: Property Owner to Provide Paint Product and Door Hardware)
*Estimate Excludes Electric Installation/Upgrade: Upon Request an Electrical Estimate can be Submitted
Payout Schedule:
$1,480.00 Due Upon Initiation of Scope of Work Balance Due Upon Completion

Primary Project B: I wanted my driveway cracks fixed/repaired (they're not bad, they just need to be sealed) - and then seal the whole driveway. He never measured the driveway.
- Power Wash Existing Driveway
- Remove Existing Silicone from Driveway Crack
- Apply Single Coat of Aggregate Clear-Coat Sealer to Entire Driveway Surface
- Install Siklaflex Product at Existing Driveway Cracks
- Haul Away All Project Related Debris
$1,972.00 - Total Guaranteed Price, Including All Labor and All Material
Payout Schedule:
$986.00 Due Upon Initiation of Scope of Work Balance Due Upon Completion

Primary Project C: This is for a deck addition to existing deck. He has on the estimate to put in 17 steps, which I actually told him I wanted to reduce the height of the deck - and connect to an existing set of steps on my driveway...but that's not included.)
- Secure Permit, if Needed and as Necessary
- Extend, Towards Existing Kitchen, Existing Rear Pressure Treated Lumber Deck by Approx.
26’ X 12’ Deck with Handrail and Seventeen Steps
- Haul Away All Project Related Debris
$9,340.00 - Total Guaranteed Price, Including All Labor and All Material
Payout Schedule:
$4,670.00 Due Upon Initiation of Scope of Work Balance Due Upon Completion

Primary Project D: This is to extend the deck in the opposite direction from project C.
- Secure Permit, if Needed and as Necessary
- Extend, Towards Existing Living Room, Existing Rear Pressure Treated Lumber Deck by
Approx. 17’ X 12’ Deck with Handrail and No Steps
- Haul Away All Project Related Debris
$5,160.00 - Total Guaranteed Price, Including All Labor and All Material
Payout Schedule:
$2,580.00 Due Upon Initiation of Scope of Work Balance Due Upon Completion

Primary Project E: I have a 15 foot tall "crawlspace" that I wanted to have a concrete floor installed - he never went down there, just estimated from on the main floor. It says a 4" form and pour, but it he never even saw what I needed!
- Form and Pour 4” X Approx. 20’ X Approx. 11’ 3,000 PSI Concrete Slab with Fiber Mesh, In Existing Crawlspace
- Haul Away All Project Related Debris
$3,845.00 - Total Guaranteed Price, Including All Labor and All Material
Payout Schedule:
$1,922.50 Due Upon Initiation of Scope of Work Balance Due Upon Completion

So, I know most of this won't make sense without knowing what everything looks like - but I think it all seems a bit high, and to top it off, he didn't look at three of the four (or 4 of the 5, literally) of the projects due to rain.

Should I punt on this guy? What say you?

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by minister

I had a contractor from a reputable company come out to give me a quote on a few projects the other day. It was raining hard the day he came out, and three of the four projects I wanted done required him to be outside or go outside to get a look at what I wanted (deck, concrete work, driveway work). Problem is, he never stepped out into the rain.

Now I don't like standing in the rain, but shouldn't I expect him to get a bit wet to do an estimate for a new deck?

Here's the quotes - tell me what you think: Is this a rip off or is this accurate? I have no clue.

Primary Project A: I wanted to frame up a new interior wall to close off a room and put in french doors to make an office out of a open formal living room. Here's what he said about that:

- Frame Approx. 11’ Additional Interior Wall, Separating Entry and Dining Area
- Install 5’ Interior French Door Set, with Hardware, within Newly Framed Interior Wall
(Property Owner to Provide Door Hardware)
- Drywall, Tape, Float and Finish Newly Framed Interior Wall
- As Necessary, Install Paint Grade Casing for Interior French Door Set and Install Baseboard
- Apply Single Finish Coat Paint to Above Casing and Trim; Apply Single Base and Single Finish
Paint Coats to Newly Finished Drywall and Newly Installed French Door Set (to Insure
Satisfaction with Color/Coverage/Finish, Property Owner to Provide Paint Product)
Haul Away All Project Related Debris
$2,960.00 - Total Guaranteed Price*, Including All Labor and All Material (Exception: Property Owner to Provide Paint Product and Door Hardware)
*Estimate Excludes Electric Installation/Upgrade: Upon Request an Electrical Estimate can be Submitted
Payout Schedule:
$1,480.00 Due Upon Initiation of Scope of Work Balance Due Upon Completion

Primary Project B: I wanted my driveway cracks fixed/repaired (they're not bad, they just need to be sealed) - and then seal the whole driveway. He never measured the driveway.
- Power Wash Existing Driveway
- Remove Existing Silicone from Driveway Crack
- Apply Single Coat of Aggregate Clear-Coat Sealer to Entire Driveway Surface
- Install Siklaflex Product at Existing Driveway Cracks
- Haul Away All Project Related Debris
$1,972.00 - Total Guaranteed Price, Including All Labor and All Material
Payout Schedule:
$986.00 Due Upon Initiation of Scope of Work Balance Due Upon Completion

Primary Project C: This is for a deck addition to existing deck. He has on the estimate to put in 17 steps, which I actually told him I wanted to reduce the height of the deck - and connect to an existing set of steps on my driveway...but that's not included.)
- Secure Permit, if Needed and as Necessary
- Extend, Towards Existing Kitchen, Existing Rear Pressure Treated Lumber Deck by Approx.
26’ X 12’ Deck with Handrail and Seventeen Steps
- Haul Away All Project Related Debris
$9,340.00 - Total Guaranteed Price, Including All Labor and All Material
Payout Schedule:
$4,670.00 Due Upon Initiation of Scope of Work Balance Due Upon Completion

Primary Project D: This is to extend the deck in the opposite direction from project C.
- Secure Permit, if Needed and as Necessary
- Extend, Towards Existing Living Room, Existing Rear Pressure Treated Lumber Deck by
Approx. 17’ X 12’ Deck with Handrail and No Steps
- Haul Away All Project Related Debris
$5,160.00 - Total Guaranteed Price, Including All Labor and All Material
Payout Schedule:
$2,580.00 Due Upon Initiation of Scope of Work Balance Due Upon Completion

Primary Project E: I have a 15 foot tall "crawlspace" that I wanted to have a concrete floor installed - he never went down there, just estimated from on the main floor. It says a 4" form and pour, but it he never even saw what I needed!
- Form and Pour 4” X Approx. 20’ X Approx. 11’ 3,000 PSI Concrete Slab with Fiber Mesh, In Existing Crawlspace
- Haul Away All Project Related Debris
$3,845.00 - Total Guaranteed Price, Including All Labor and All Material
Payout Schedule:
$1,922.50 Due Upon Initiation of Scope of Work Balance Due Upon Completion

So, I know most of this won't make sense without knowing what everything looks like - but I think it all seems a bit high, and to top it off, he didn't look at three of the four (or 4 of the 5, literally) of the projects due to rain.

Should I punt on this guy? What say you?

No. If you would not stand in the rain then why should he? Reminds me of when I was a kid growing up in NJ. In NJ (and Oregon) it is illegal for you to touch the gas pump. Only an employee attendant can pump your gas. Back in those days very few gas stations had a roof over the pumps. Funny thing how the cars piled in the second the rain started falling. Do you know what we said about those inconsiderate people?

Project A Sounds reasonable to me. I see about half that covering materials. The deposit is very reasonable. The man is very detailed and fairly specific in his description of the work and materials. I see very very minimal electrical involved so don't know why he is separating it. My professional opinion could be plus or minus just a bit based on what part of the country you're in.

If he is a licensed and insured, even better. Pizz on any BBB or Angie's List crap as it is no indication of quality. It's a huge scam.

Project B sounds extremely high. Something missing that maybe you did not include though what else could there be? One need not really measure anything to be accurate as any pro can guestimate W x L and come up with an instant square footage then simply calculate how many cans to buy. Check deeper on this price. It's wrong!

Project C the deck sounds a tad high but this is outside my normal scope of the work I normally perform so I may be not completely wrong or right. 17 steps sounds like this thing is up in the air and therefore adding to the degree of difficulty. This fact may also toss the usual way of estimating by the square foot method. I'd explore the more modern options today such as the new Evergrain Composite, PVC, or even aluminum. The finished product will outlast the pressure treated/womanized by decades. They will never warp or give splinters. Just get a splinter with PT lumber and watch that area get real fat and infected. PT lumber is treated with Arsenic which is where the green color comes from. Think about it. Get more estimates for this one before you decide.

Project D I feel the same way as C. There may be more to it then your explanation describes for his quote. An explanation that the average Homeowner would never understand but an explanation that is an obligation of the Contractor to explain.

Project E sounds very reasonable but I'm suspicious there may be more to the project that he did not see because he did not look. Recently, very recently we did a job for the Texas DOT and the other half of my company did not want to go to the job to measure because it was a 6 hour drive. So he simply estimated a square footage for the ceiling for drywall. What he didn't know, because he did not go in person, was that the ceiling was 30' off the ground requiring the rental of expensive hydraulic scaffolding cars on wheels.

To sum up: Get more estimates. I don't always trust asking for past jobs to call or look at because if it's a new person in the trades they will always give you their friends number who they already pre arranged with to take these calls. And DO NOT trust the BBB or Angie's stupid list. They are both private for profit businesses. THE BBB IS NOT GOVERNMENT. These scammers extort money from Contractors to make complaints go away without investigating. Angie is nothing but a failure when she tried to imitate Craigslist but failed. Then she got the great idea of a new version of the Contractor Referral Service.

Too much more tales to tell but there's an over view for ya. Good luck!!

[rrtechno]

If you have concerns, get a second (and/or a third quote). You may be able to stop second guessing yourself.

Perhaps he has enough experience that he can feel comfortable giving a quote without getting drenched.

[karen_in_nh_2012]

OP, I had a contractor come over to look at my last house to give me an estimate on installing kitchen cabinets. The kitchen at that time had a dropped ceiling so ceiling height was only 7' (compared to the "regular" 8' for the rest of the house). I asked him to give me a separate estimate for raising the ceiling. He did not even go up to the attic (right above the kitchen, with easy access from drop-down stairs in the garage) to see what was involved; he just added something like $10,000 to the installation price.

When I got the estimate I just shook my head and thought, "Are you kidding?!" I had a colleague take a look in the attic to see what was involved in raising the ceiling and the hardest part was bumping the forced-air vent up a foot (and that wasn't hard at all). It ended up looking beautiful, and I gained a foot vertically, which made the whole space seem so much nicer.

My point is that I would be very skeptical of any estimate in which the contractor did not even look at the area he'd be working on. At the VERY least, I would get at least a couple more estimates.

[minister]

The main thing I'm concerned about are the outside areas. The backyard, where the deck would be expanded, is on a slope. He never went out and looked at said slope. I was wanting to eliminate the 17 steps, and combine it onto a set of steps on our driveway. He said that would be easy - but didn't even include it.

DesertSun41 - I did offer him a large golf umbrella, and offered to go out with him to show him everything - I would have done it in a heartbeat. Honestly, I would have preferred for him to call me earlier in the day and just say hey, its raining, let's put this off till later. But when he got there - he didn't even know he was doing outside quotes - his office never told him.

Sigh - oh well. Any other ideas?

[minister]

Originally Posted by desertsun41

. And DO NOT trust the BBB or Angie's stupid list. They are both private for profit businesses. THE BBB IS NOT GOVERNMENT. These scammers extort money from Contractors to make complaints go away without investigating. Angie is nothing but a failure when she tried to imitate Craigslist but failed. Then she got the great idea of a new version of the Contractor Referral Service.

Too much more tales to tell but there's an over view for ya. Good luck!!

Oddly enough - I called him based on great reviews from Angie's List. Sigh...

[calnbs]

You should have at least 3 contractors bidding on your projects. It'll give you a better idea. Sometimes, the next bidder's bid might shock or surprise you. For example, I wanted 5 huge pine trees cut down in my very small backyard (backyards aren't worth crap in CA). I had bids from $500 to $7,000. Most bid ranged in the $1,300-$2,000 range. I quickly eliminated the lowest and the highest. I settled with a company that was insured and their bid was $900.

I wanted to install bathroom exhaust fans and I had a contractor bid $600 to install a bathroom exhaust fan and wanted $300 just to replace the old ones. Seriously...$300 to just replace? Thats 5 mins of work. I got a lot of bids. I got someone to install the exhaust fan for $100 and $20 to replace existing ones.

So yeah, get more than one bid. Never go with the cheapest or the the most expensive.

[calnbs]

Originally Posted by minister

Oddly enough - I called him based on great reviews from Angie's List. Sigh...

I agreed with desertsun41. BBB and Angie's List are just scams. I think it was 20/20 that did a show on BBB. BBB gave an "A" rating to a terrorist organization because BBB's fees were paid.

[K'ledgeBldr]

I'm not going through a whole dissertation on the estimates- I have only your description and one quote. Without a true physical inspection, it's a crap-shoot at best.

Let's face it; one quote is one quote and nothing more. Until you have 3 or 4 you won't know what you truly have/want.

[Henry10]

Originally Posted by calnbs

Never go with the cheapest or the the most expensive.

This entire world is built by the cheapest bid.