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Old 12-24-2013, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Puposky MN
1,083 posts, read 980,647 times
Reputation: 4844

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Hello- quick question for anyone who has any sort of idea on this....

I recently got a wild hair up my butt to tear up the old linoleum in my basement- it had been driving me crazy for quite some time, old water damage stains, last done in sometime around the sixites and just had to go. Here's my issue- the tar that gets left behind on the concrete? The only thing I know of that will remove that without a major amount of effort is mineral spirits. However, and I really didn't think this through before starting the project, big surprise there, I'm almost 6 months pregnant and solvents and chemicals are not anywhere on my ok to do list. Anyone have any ideas? Something natural that can get this crap off the floor? I can live with the ugly basement until after the kid comes, but it's driving me batty.

Thanks in advance for any info you have!
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,841 posts, read 51,286,023 times
Reputation: 27648
Orangene or Limonene might do it, but just because a product is derived from citrus does not make the chemicals any less potent. Low VOC mineral spirits are about as good as you may get. Just leave it. Once the kid comes, you won't notice it anyway.
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,073,320 times
Reputation: 4997
It may also have asbestos in it to. We always removed this in containment following all asbestos OSHA rules. Tyvex suits, respirators, blah, blah, blah!

Mastic Remover - Abatix
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Old 12-26-2013, 11:08 AM
 
5,048 posts, read 6,392,001 times
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IMO you need to utilize your nesting phase on something else. You need to figure a way to safely cover the floor and do this another time with a professional mask or have it professionally done. Linoleum and the mastic under it can have asbestos, especially pre 1970s and in historic homes. Personally, I would keep the baby elsewhere later while it's being done.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
16,701 posts, read 20,456,636 times
Reputation: 30701
Dip into the kid's college fund and hire somebody to remove it.

Congrats btw!
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,223 posts, read 3,517,937 times
Reputation: 9382
Oh god!

I hope you tested it for asbestos before you tore it apart!

You had best go speak with your doctor ASAP!
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,841 posts, read 51,286,023 times
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I love it when the fear-mongers come to feast on asbestos. There is even more running around like headless chickens than in a "Chuckie" movie.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,073,320 times
Reputation: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
I love it when the fear-mongers come to feast on asbestos. There is even more running around like headless chickens than in a "Chuckie" movie.
No fear Harry, but rather years of experience in dealing with this old mastic. This is not a job a woman with child should be doing, and a citrus based product won't cut it. The chances of asbestos becoming friable (breathable product in the air) are minimal using the proper solvent based product for removal. However, dealing with a solvent based product prior to child birth should be avoided.

Maybe OSHA is a joke to you, but remember it is like Building Code, and is a minimum standard for safety. It has been proven time and time again that parents involved in hazardous abatement that do not follow procedure, can and will bring home these hazards and expose their families. While an adult removing an acoustic ceiling once that is ACM (asbestos containing material) has little chance of suffering an illness, would you want your pregnant daughter doing it?

Last edited by MrWillys; 12-27-2013 at 09:06 AM..
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,841 posts, read 51,286,023 times
Reputation: 27648
MrWillys, you and I are basically agreeing on the core concepts of
1. minimal asbestos exposure with even basic precautions
2. PROPER solvent use
3. Mother not needing to be doing this

Since the OP crossposted her question the Green forum, I'm pasting my response from it here.

Unless a sander was taken to the tile, any asbestos exposure would have been so minimal as to be less than average environmental exposure from just living in the U.S. in the 1950s. (For example, brake drums were asbestos. If you were in stop-and-go traffic, you were exposed.)

An active ingredient in citrus oil is also known as orangene. There is another common chemical called limonene used for intense cleaning. Limonene MAY have some good effects but many other components in "non-toxic" orange oil are anything but.

"I've had some luck with citrus oil. It's non-toxic. " WRONG!!!!!!!!!

"The volatile oil (bitter orange oil) contains more than 90% monoterpenes (main d-limonene, also myrcene, campherr pinene, ocimene, p-cymene, etc.); small amounts of alcohols (linalool, terpinene nerol, farnesol, nerolidol, octanol, etc. usually 0.5–1% aldehydes (mainly decanal also nonanal, dodecanal, citronellal, neral acetaldehyde, formaldehyde, etc.), and ketones (carvone, α-ionone, and jasmine); free acids (octadecadienoic, pelargonic, cinnamic, acetic, etc.); about 2.4% esters (linalyl acetate, decyl pelargonate, octyl acetate, geranyl acetate, etc.); coumarins (osthole and auraptenol); and others." Source: Chemical Composition of Orange: Information from Answers.com Any chemist past the first semester will be able to reference similar information.

On a personal note, I have used orangene in the past. Aside from "melting" plastics, the stuff can even migrate through gloves and create a tingling and numbness in the hands. There is no way on G*d's green earth that I would EVER recommend a pregnant woman using it. EVER!

Toxicology of Orange: Information from Answers.com

Which brings me to a meta-point. I am sure openD was just trying to be helpful, but when giving advice it is important to verify first, especially when there is the potential for harm. One of the reasons I read and post in this forum is to bring some reality back to those who have been taken in by the marketing of "green" products. This thread is a PERFECT example of why that balance is needed.

The marketing of attorneys has created unreasonable fear over asbestos, created new laws within the EPA, and a new asbestos abatement industry that is far larger than need be. Yes, asbestos IN THE AIR that gets into lungs can be dangerous. Locked up in a matrix of a floor tile, it has little opportunity to get into the air. With common sense tile removal, there is almost no danger to a mother and ZERO danger to a fetus.

However... Using a "green" product of orange oil, compared to a low V.O.C. mineral spirits is probably on the order of a thousand times more dangerous to mother and fetus than asbestos exposure. Many of the component chemicals have to potential to be mutagenic, carcinogenic, and neurotoxic.

DO NOT TRUST GREEN MARKETING. Every material on the planet is made up of atoms and chemicals - organic chemicals can be even MORE deadly than many inorganic ones. Snake venom is organic. Botulism is organic. Both can be marketed as "all natural." Some products that are green are truly good and useful, but it is up to you to separate the fact from fiction.
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:48 AM
 
9,311 posts, read 13,839,731 times
Reputation: 9351
How would asbestos exposure hurt a fetus? The fetus isn't breathing air, and asbestos's main issue is the lungs. I wouldn't want asbestos around a newborn, but a fetus?

Anyway, you'd have to really work at it to get significant asbestos free from the mastic. Just don't try to scrape it off dry.

Judging from Harry's list, bitter orange oil sounds like better-smelling turpentine (another natural but not at all non-toxic product). You're better off with odorless (mostly long-chain) mineral spirits.
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