U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > House
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-11-2015, 12:03 PM
 
1 posts, read 3,626 times
Reputation: 10

Advertisements

I purchased 2 new fireplace inserts. Both wired 220v.They both have a light that flickers representing the illusion of fire and they both have a heater(1500w) that can be separately turned on, if wanted, to blow out heat into the room. I installed a new 220v recepticle for one unit and it works fine.The second unit I want to use in another room with just the light application and not use the heater at all.Can I wire this unit for 110v and use a 110v outlet that is already available. If so, how?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-11-2015, 02:49 PM
 
28,046 posts, read 66,191,221 times
Reputation: 17510
I really would recommend against doing this. The odds of even a skilled electrician making modifications that might render the device unusable or unsafe are quite high, and that is why pretty much any UL-listed device is also going to say "no user serviceable parts inside". That UL-listing means that Underwriters Labs has tested the device and is sure that it will not contribute to something like a fire or electrical shock hazard. I would never consider putting a 220v device into my home that did not have the UL label and frankly these Shanghai-made units look like death machines: ELECTRIC FIREPLACE HEATER 220V | FIREPLACE HEATER

If you really want to ignore the warnings, I suppose you could get the schematic and determine if the "light" is in any way separable from the "heat". If it is you could then bypass the 220v portion of the device and just run the light off 110v. Depending on how the light is generated this may or may not be feasible...

Many of these "electric fireplaces" that are 220v are designed to put out 4000 watts of heat and that is why they require not just a 220v plug but also appropriate circuit breaker and wiring to prevent dangerous overheating...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2015, 07:59 PM
 
480 posts, read 430,182 times
Reputation: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Bananas15 View Post
I purchased 2 new fireplace inserts. Both wired 220v.They both have a light that flickers representing the illusion of fire and they both have a heater(1500w) that can be separately turned on, if wanted, to blow out heat into the room. I installed a new 220v recepticle for one unit and it works fine.The second unit I want to use in another room with just the light application and not use the heater at all.Can I wire this unit for 110v and use a 110v outlet that is already available. If so, how?
Well, you should be able to purchase a step up transformer that converts 110V to 220V. They are available for those that travel internationally. You would want to find one that is rated continuous duty and for a sufficient wattage for the light-only application.

Something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Goldsource-STU...220v+convertor

The only thing you might need to do is change or add a electrical outlet onto the electrical fireplace.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2015, 03:07 AM
 
61,279 posts, read 63,262,874 times
Reputation: 40289
first off converters are NOT transformers and there is a big difference between the two .

your device may not work with these universal converters for a few reasons .

first there are safety issues and you have to be very careful using these converters . when you convert from 120v to 220v for every amp you draw on the 220v side you draw 2 amps on the 120v side . the goldsource unit as an example has a #16 gauge cord and plug limiting the input power you can draw to about 8 or 9 amp on the 120v side and only 4 amp on the 220v side .

except for very low current draw items you will easily overload the 120v side of things .


also converters are designed for very short term use like a hair dryer or electric tooth brush . they cannot handle continuous duty applications where they are used for hours . .

there may be other issues as well if you use these universal travel voltage converters which can go from 120v to 220v or 220v to 120v ,. most are designed for European voltage configurations .

An American system has 3 wires. 2 hots and a neutral. From one hot to the other hot you will get 240v. From any hot to the neutral you will get 120v.

In a European system you have 2 wires. From one hot to the other you will have 240v. no option for 120v to be derived at .

European 220v is arrived at very differently then we use in america . our 220v system provides the ability for a device to have 220v as well as 120v circuitry at the same time . you can have a 220v heater element with a 120v fan or light inside and the device can pick up the 120v power it needs off the 220v feed via a hot and neutral . if it has no transformer of its own inside and uses a hot and neutral to arrive at 120v you will be dead in the water .

good design practice would typically use a transformer inside the device to go from 220v to 120v and not pick up a hot and neutral but not all things built conform to proper design techniques .

you can't get the dual voltages at the same time with most of the universal converters used backwards going from 120v to 220v like the goldsource unit above so many things will not run if they utilize both voltages at the same time.

if your device used the 2 hots and neutral off the 220v feed then using the goldstar unit above would not work since you can only get a 220v output into your feed , no 3rd wire .

you would have to rewire the inside of the heater and find the 120v circuitry and split it out and run a separate 120v feed . highly not recommended doing .

Last edited by mathjak107; 11-12-2015 at 04:35 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2015, 07:32 PM
 
9,137 posts, read 13,314,710 times
Reputation: 9035
If these are units intended for use in the US, it's quite likely the lighting side only uses 110V. You could wire a cheater cord connecting hot from the outlet to _both_ hots (or only one, but it would have to be the right one) of the 220V plug, neutral to neutral, ground to ground, and it would probably work. I wouldn't recommend it, but it would probably work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2015, 02:35 AM
 
61,279 posts, read 63,262,874 times
Reputation: 40289
any 220v motorss you still leave accidentally connected can burn out only bringing in 120v . while some may not work in at all others may just try to run and self destruct drawing excessive current .

in fact if the device has an internal transformer stepping the 220v down to 120v for the lights as good design engineering dictates it won't even work the 120v stuff feeding the unit with 120v . .

the primary of the transformer will not output that as 120v unless you bring in 220v .

laymen who are not good at either reading a wiring diagram or tracing circuitry should not be dabbling with this stuff .

when i was working in the custom control panel business our experienced panel builders would sometimes get this stuff wrong and destroy equipment because of unintended consequences of things they missed trying to work around problems ,..

Last edited by mathjak107; 11-13-2015 at 03:03 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2015, 08:47 PM
 
9,137 posts, read 13,314,710 times
Reputation: 9035
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
any 220v motorss you still leave accidentally connected can burn out only bringing in 120v . while some may not work in at all others may just try to run and self destruct drawing excessive current .

in fact if the device has an internal transformer stepping the 220v down to 120v for the lights as good design engineering dictates it won't even work the 120v stuff feeding the unit with 120v . .
If it's designed for split phase residential, the 220 stuff will be wired from phase to phase, while the 120 stuff will be wired from one phase to neutral, no transformer. If you wire both hots to the same phase, the 220 stuff will see 0 volts and not operate, while the 120 stuff will work fine; no issue with 220 stuff seeing 120.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2015, 04:02 AM
 
61,279 posts, read 63,262,874 times
Reputation: 40289
as long as there are no control relays in the path that turn the 120v on via 220v control relays he would be fine .

but i would be very careful here as something is turning the 120v source on to the light . if there is a simple mechanical switch in the heater that is in the 120v circuit no problem but if it is done with a 220v control relay that switched the 120v path on and off then no good.

can't say without a schematic what the actual wiring is doing . some inserts are actually dual voltage and just provide less heat if used on 120v instead of 220v in which case he can get some heat and the lights with a 120v feed

Last edited by mathjak107; 11-14-2015 at 05:16 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > House
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top