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We make our home the least appealing to thieves. Alarm company signs, beware of dog signs, lights, random schedules etc.
It's like swimming with a shark in the water. I don't have to be a fast swimmer. I just need to swim faster than you.
I think this is why some people pooh pooh neighbors adding burglary deterrents.
Consider two neighboring households:
Household 1 has no burglary deterrents (aside from locking doors). They may or may not have items that a burglar would want. Household 2 has no burglary deterrents and definitely has the "remarketable" toys.
Guess which house the burglar would target. BUT then Household 2 adds a variety of anti-burglary equipment and measures. Now the risk-to-payoff balance has shifted.
I still think keeping eyes and ears always alert to who is going by and and what they are doing is the true first line of defense. It is also the one that cannot function 100% of the time, hence the need for equipment-based layers of defense.
Breaking into a house is very much a violation of both personal space (and safety) and property rights and should be viewed as such.
It’s all about layers of security. Think like a bad guy and look for reasons why you would pick your own home to break into. Correct those problem areas that need to be fixed. Add that security door; change the short ¾” screws in the door to the 3” type. Add one thing at a time and keep going until you have covered everything you feel needs to be taken care of. Spend as little or as much as you feel it’s worth. And check with your local police department and see when they’ll have the next meeting with homeowners about break-ins. A $5 sign in the yard can help and a $500+ camera system improves things. Alarm companies continue to charge monthly fees for monitoring homes if you want to pay for it, however I personally don’t care for them and alarm systems aren’t bullet proof. Burglars hit and run in under 5 minutes because they know the police are coming and they’ll be out of the area by the time police arrive at the house.
I agree that it is all about layers. That is how I protect my house .....
1. Alarm/security sign in the front yard.
2. Cameras ... in my case real ones, placed where they can be seen but high enough to be really difficult to tamper with and which record any movement. There are also a couple of hidden ones.
3. All sliders are protected by lengths of wood on the tracks. You might break the lock but the window still will not open. We have very few windows that are not sliders and you would have to be really small to get in through those ones.
4. Good quality locks on all doors.
5. Alarm system. This is required by our insurance and we have only had a couple of false alarms in the past few years both caused by high winds.
6. And if I am home .... my Glock 17 which always has a clip of critical defense ammo in it.
I am more than aware that a professional thief can break into any home. But professionals generally know exactly what they are after, get it and leave. They are also a very small minority of burglars. The real concern are 'casual' thieves who see an opportunity or junkies desperate to feed their habit. They are the ones that you want to deter and they are also the ones who are probably the easiest to deter.
This is exactly what the consultant said. Something like "Police can only arrive in time to call the coroner, your best defense is to make the bad guys choose another victim" That was a bit overly dramatic and pretty callous, but true.
That said, most criminals do NOT want to encounter a person. Despite the commercials showing mom and daughter at home by themselves when someone breaks in - that's not likely in a neighborhood known to have SAHMs. I'd say leave the garage door open but the door to the garage locked. so it appears you're home if you are!
When at home, the firearm stays loaded and with you, not unloaded in a safe with a safety lock on, and if you've broken into my home you are not "[I
an innocent[/i]"; the law in my state agrees with me.
A weapon is not the be all and end all of security, but rather one important facet of "defense in depth".
Unless you are going to carry it around, it should be safely locked up especially if you have or might have children or worse yet teenagers in the house.
If you are wrong about why someone is in your house, you can end up in prison, usually for manslaughter. If your house is on fire and you do not know it and shoot the firefighters coming in to rescue you - good bye. If your neighbor came to your door and you left it open so they stepped in to make certain you are ok. If your neighbor called police or an EMT and said they are having a heart attack but gave the wrong address, and you shoot the emt or other first responder who enters your house intending to save them. In many states if you can get out the back door, you must do so, and not shoot a person coming in the front door (unless your family is in the house). I am aware of only a few States that do not impose the "escape" law. Someone is in an accident and is bleeding and you do not answer the door and they walk in screaming for help and you shoot them, - depends on the state. If you kicked your son out of the house and you think you have rightfully prohibited them from returning, but you are wrong legally and he comes back to the house with his key and you shoot him - jail time. There are probably another hundred examples people can think of.
No. Sorry. You must make certain you are correct before you pull the trigger. You cannot just come out blazing away just because there is a person in your house, not to mention you had better figure out exactly where they are because if you are using anything but a short barrel shotgun, any shots that miss have the possibility of killing the little girl playing with her dolls in her bedroom next door and I do not know of anywhere you are not liable for that.
It's not "escape law", It's "Duty to retreat", as you'd know if you read any state laws
I'm not even going to address the stawmen and hyperbole in the above, piled too deep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
In many states if you can get out the back door, you must do so, and not shoot a person coming in the front door (unless your family is in the house). I am aware of only a few States that do not impose the "escape" law.
Sorry, but you are completely wrong. I suspect you haven't read the law, or you'd at least get the terminology right. I'm not suggesting you need to know the law for every state, but I strongly encourage you to read the laws for your state of residence before you go designing imaginary scenarios to apply to strangers.
No, the majority of states do not impose the "escape" law. Only four states have such a limitation on self-defense in the home-- Nebraska, New Mexico, South Dakota and Vermont (DC doesn't count). "Castle Doctrine", either written or implicit, is the law on defense at home, in the majority of states.
Even when talking about defense outside the home, "No duty to retreat" is the law in 31 states. This means if you are in your own home, you do not need to escape. But don't trust me, read the laws for your state of residence for yourself, or take a localized course with attorney-authored content summarizing your state and local laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
That said, most criminals do NOT want to encounter a person. Despite the commercials showing mom and daughter at home by themselves when someone breaks in - that's not likely in a neighborhood known to have SAHMs. I'd say leave the garage door open but the door to the garage locked. so it appears you're home if you are!
I'm not willing to trust my safety based on what most criminals want, the most infamous crime in my area in recent history was against a mom and daughter at home by themselves. I do agree that giving the impression of occupancy is useful, both when you are home and when you're not.
I agree that it is all about layers. That is how I protect my house .....
1. Alarm/security sign in the front yard.
2. Cameras ... in my case real ones, placed where they can be seen but high enough to be really difficult to tamper with and which record any movement. There are also a couple of hidden ones.
3. All sliders are protected by lengths of wood on the tracks. You might break the lock but the window still will not open. We have very few windows that are not sliders and you would have to be really small to get in through those ones.
4. Good quality locks on all doors.
5. Alarm system. This is required by our insurance and we have only had a couple of false alarms in the past few years both caused by high winds.
6. And if I am home .... my Glock 17 which always has a clip of critical defense ammo in it.
I am more than aware that a professional thief can break into any home. But professionals generally know exactly what they are after, get it and leave. They are also a very small minority of burglars. The real concern are 'casual' thieves who see an opportunity or junkies desperate to feed their habit. They are the ones that you want to deter and they are also the ones who are probably the easiest to deter.
You've taken the same approach that we have, except thanks for the reminder about the sliders. We moved in two years ago and I had honestly forgotten about that easy fix.
I also put the little decals on each window - the ones about the alarm. This in addition to the sign in the front flower beds.
We have a small sign by each gate that says "We don't dial 911" with a picture of a gun on it. And believe me, we will use that gun if necessary. But I may replace those signs with "Beware of Dog" signs instead now that I'm thinking about it.
We also installed motion detector lights which flood the yard with light at night if there's movement out there.
I'll add one more deterrent that we have - a large dog with a huge, booming bark. She is actually a darling girl who has probably never even imagined biting or attacking anyone, but she looks and sounds like she would tear your face off. We have another large dog too, but for some reason he isn't a barker. But I think that in actuality he would be more aggressive against an intruder.
We have a retaining wall on our back yard. Our big girl dog loves to walk on it. I decided to paint a sign just for her. See how scary she looks? LOL
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 02-07-2020 at 07:17 AM..
We lived in a rough but gentrifying neighborhood in California. We were by far the wealthiest people in the neighborhood and that made us nervous so we hired a security consultant. He was really good and gave us some great deterrent ideas. He said an alarm system is moderately useful, but the sign for the alarm system is a great deterrent. Fake cameras are also a great deterrent. Real ones cost a lot more and will allow the police to figure out who killed you, but they are no better deterrent than fake ones.
A few of his other tips:
Leave a $20 on a table in plain sight near each door. If you open the door and the $20 is gone - get out of the house and call the police (unless you have teenagers). Someone breaking in cannot resist picking up a loose $20. Do not leave it in sight of a window, or it can encourage someone to break in.
Put double tumbler deadbolts on all the doors and do not leave a spare key where it can be found. When you are home, leave a key in the tumbler inside so you can get out if you need to.
trim all your bushes so you can see under them. Most thieves put your stuff int he bushes and come back for it later. Plus it prevents them hiding in the bushes.
Grow thorny plants like Bouganvilla outside windows.
Leave on very large man's shoe on the front porch. (this says a large man lives here and he is home). Two shoes might get stolen
Leave a large dog food bowl and/or chew toy on the front porch or visible in the entry room even if you have no dog. Better if there is half eaten food in it.
Alarm sign or beware of dog sign even if you do not have either.
put a metal security door over or inside each exterior door.
If you answer the door, hold a phone and pretend to talk into it as you answer the door. Say to your pretend (or real) caller "Just a minute" before you greet the person at the door. If they are thinking of forcing their way in, they will have second thoughts if you have someone on the phone. Also you can keep you car remote in your hand and set of the panic button if there is a problem. Actually he suggested setting off the panic button regardless. If they are just girl scouts with cookies, you just say oops and turn it off. Bad guys will usually run away.
Motion sensor lights all over outside and inside the house. But do not leave lights on. They allows them to see inside and see what you have. It also discourages them form using flashlights or walking around in the dark. They think walking in a dark house or using a flashlight is being sneaky, but it actually attracts attention. People walking around with the lights on does not seem unusual.
Make sure your neighbors know you and can recognize you. Then if someone is removing a TV who is not you, they know something is wrong.
Furniture placement so it is difficult to climb in a window can be useful.
In general, locks window guards window alarms, etc are of little use. Particularly on newer homes where it is just as easy to go through a wall as to break a window.
Getting a little paranoid:
Have a code word with friends or relatives that says you are in trouble and they should call the police.
Put a piece of toothpick or something tiny in the door or put a piece of fresh tap over the door each time you leave. Put either one in a place where they are not likely to get noticed. Then if you come home and the item is gone or tape os broken, you know the door was opened while you were away.
A police union support sticker may be an effective deterrent. and NRA sicker is not. It says I have some nice guns you can steal. Guns are one of the best things to steal. Second only to cash.
From our personal experience - motion sensor alarms will make you broke. We never had a real alarm but hundreds of dollars in fines form false alarms where our system called the police. IN our city you got two false alarms per year for free, then they charged you $150 for every time.
Signs and fake cameras have their limits though. First a lot of thieves cannot read and/or do not take the time to read signs. Smart thieves know real cameras are usually going to be hidden and not advertised with signs. If you hide fake cameras, the thieves may not see them. If you make them obvious, it may be obvious they are fake. People with real cameras hide them and do not put up signs becasue it allows good thieves to thwart them (cover them, cut wires etcetera. The purpose of real cameras is really more catching thieves, not for stopping them. The purpose of fake cameras is stopping thieves. Thus if you see a sign advertising cameras on private property, they are probably fake.
Wait what? On newer homes it is just as easy to go through a wall then it is a window? Did your "security expert" tell you this? Have you tried kicking, smashing or even sledge hammering through a typical residential wall lately? I can only imagine how stealthy that must be.
I'm not even going to address the stawmen and hyperbole in the above, piled too deep.
Sorry, but you are completely wrong. I suspect you haven't read the law, or you'd at least get the terminology right. I'm not suggesting you need to know the law for every state, but I strongly encourage you to read the laws for your state of residence before you go designing imaginary scenarios to apply to strangers.
No, the majority of states do not impose the "escape" law. Only four states have such a limitation on self-defense in the home-- Nebraska, New Mexico, South Dakota and Vermont (DC doesn't count). "Castle Doctrine", either written or implicit, is the law on defense at home, in the majority of states.
Even when talking about defense outside the home, "No duty to retreat" is the law in 31 states. This means if you are in your own home, you do not need to escape. But don't trust me, read the laws for your state of residence for yourself, or take a localized course with attorney-authored content summarizing your state and local laws.
I'm not willing to trust my safety based on what most criminals want, the most infamous crime in my area in recent history was against a mom and daughter at home by themselves. I do agree that giving the impression of occupancy is useful, both when you are home and when you're not.
You are almost sort of correct, but not correct enough to stay out of jail. Relying on internet blogs and articles or opinions from attorneys with an agenda are not going to keep you out of jail. (There is nothing magical about someone sticking a JD after their name - it does not make them an expert). The only way you can say you actually know what the law is is to read the statute, read all the cases (published and unpublished) know the judges, and even then it is a crap shoot. BTW, you will not find the terminology you are referring to in any current statutes that i know of. the terms "escape law" and "castle law" are made up terms used to describe concepts, not legal terms of art. Maybe some statute somewhere has used them, but probably not. Such lables are detrimental to the interpretation of a statute.
I can see this is what you would like the law to be, but it is not that black and white. The fact is, if you can get away instead of going and looking for trouble, you have some likelihood of being prosecuted in virtually every state. The labels are convenient, but not important. The key factor is you must have reasonable belief that you are in danger.
If you are standing at your back door and they come in the front door 60 feet and three walls away, you had better go out the back door and call the police, rather than running upstairs to get your gun and shoot them unless you want a friend named Bubba. You might get away with killing them, but you also might not. How is it worth ruining your life just to "teach them a lesson" The fact is if you are not in danger, you must not put yourself in danger just to justify shooting someone. In what state can you shoot anyone who happens to be inside your house? Answer - none. Not one state has such a law. You can shoot someone all states under specific circumstances only - regardless of what label your internet blog places on your state.
18 States actually adhere to the retreat doctrine concepts in one way or another - there is no set terminology, it varies - however the retreat dotrine applies to self- defense (i.e. where there is some threat of harm to you). If you are not engaged with a perpetrator, you may not go and engage them in order to claim you had to defend yourself or your castle. The extent of that varies by state - yes even in your state. The doctrines you are referring to are old terms that are really not applicable because the states and common law have modified them so much there is no pure "retreat doctrine" and no pure "castle" doctrine. People still use the terms to describe concepts, but these laws are complex and do not fit into any one label. In other words, most states have a kind of retreat/kind of castle doctrine mix. Where the law has more elements of one than the other, commentators apply the label to that State, often incorrectly.
About half the States have so called "castle" laws but the definitions, limitations and exceptions vary. The doctrine is usually an adaptation of the self defense concept and applies the same limitations. In other words, you must be in imminent danger and reasonably fear the use of force against you or someone in your house.
If someone breaks into your garage and tries to steal your car, can you unlock your garage door and go into the garage and shoot them? No. Not anywhere that I am aware of.
If a lost 5 year old walks into your house at night can you shoot them? No. What if that 5 year old throws a brick through your window and then comes in? Not in most states unless there is some indication he or she has a gun or otherwise can do serious harm.
Drunk guy gets confused about which house is his, comes in and passes out on your couch. Can you come down in the morning and shoot him while he is asleep on your couch? Nope. That is murder. What if someone breaks in and you surprise them and they run for the door? Can you shoot them as they are leaving? Not anywhere I know of. So called Castle laws and stand your ground laws are not going to protect you.
Those are the black and white examples. Most cases fall into a grey area regardless of whether the state is labeled "stand your ground," "castle" or "retreat" on some internet blog or article. Even in "stand your ground" states, you cannot go looking for trouble. You cannot hunt the burglar or other possible trespasser to shoot them. You must have a reasonable belief that you, or those your are responsible for are in danger of bodily injury or death. If you cannot prove you had such belief - better learn to squeal like a pig.
Reading a statute and thinking you understand what it means is not a guarantee either. Courts will apply the laws, whatever they are, in a way they see rationale. Thus, even in so called "retreat" states, your options must be considered reasonable, you do not have to climb up your chimney to get away; and in the most liberal "castle" states you must have reason to believe you are at risk - you cannot run over from the neighbors house to shoot the guy who just broke into your empty home.
I am aware there is internet legend that you have free reign to shoot anyone who happens to be in your house, but that is incorrect. They must be in your house illegally and you must have reasonable belief you are in danger. The definition of reasonable belief varies, it is implied in some states if soemone is in your house, but it is also rebuttable in nearly all, or maybe all states. If you can get out- get out. You do not have time to read the statutes and all the cases to understand all of the exceptions and limitations to your State's castle laws. "I read on the internet that *** is a "castle" state" is not a defense.
"or take a localized course with attorney-authored content summarizing your state and local laws." You might say I have done this, but probably in a different context than you are referring to and it was more nationally oriented, but they did address specific examples from various states.
Personally for me - it makes no difference Since I would never rely on an internet blog, a class where I am given someone's opinion (which is usually going to be agenda based), nor even on MY personal interpretation of a statue and/or case law to keep me out of jail - I do not need to attempt to become an expert in my home state rules. I am not going to shoot anyone unless I know it is necessary and unless I am certain I or my family are in danger. Given that, the laws are irrelevant. If we can get out, I am getting out. - No jail time there regardless of the laws. If we cannot safely get out, I am going to shoot them regardless of whether the law says it is ok to do so or not. I will defend my family or myself regardless of the laws, however I will try to make certain I am correct - regardless of the laws. If I have to go to jail to defend my family or myself I will but if I can avoid having to kill someone I will. I am not going to kill someone ever just because I think I "can" under State law. Thus, as long as I would only shoot someone in an actual self defense situation, the laws will make no difference to me. I would advise anyone to take the same approach regardless of what they think their current state laws are. I can guarantee you do not know all the exceptions and limitations, nor does your lawyer. Fine nuances and exceptions are identified and/or created by judges on a nearly daily basis. Even the judge who hears your case cannot tell you what the outcome of the case will be without knowing every nuance and detail that will be introduced (an in some instances without knowing whether that judge had his or her coffee that morning). In other words - never shoot someone unless you are willing to go to jail for doing so, no matter the circumstances.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 07-19-2016 at 09:21 AM..
18 States actually adhere to the retreat doctrine concepts in one way or another - there is no set terminology, it varies - however the retreat dotrine applies to self- defense (i.e. where there is some threat of harm to you). If you are not engaged with a perpetrator, you may not go and engage them in order to claim you had to defend yourself or your castle. The extent of that varies by state - yes even in your state. The doctrines you are referring to are old terms that are really not applicable because the states and common law have modified them so much there is no pure "retreat doctrine" and no pure "castle" doctrine. People still use the terms to describe concepts, but these laws are complex and do not fit into any one label. In other words, most states have a kind of retreat/kind of castle doctrine mix. Where the law has more elements of one than the other, commentators apply the label to that State, often incorrectly.
You claim 18 states, but that number can only be reached if you are looking for"retreat dotrine" in regards to being out in public, meanwhile we're specifically talking about defense inside the home.
I'll stick with taking my legal advice from lawyers, thank you very much.
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It's not "escape law", It's "Duty to retreat", as you'd know if you read any state laws
Wow, you REALLY like to type.
