Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It amazes me at just who well things were built at one time... in fact... American made goods were often so well built and easy to service they never really wore out and in fact, were only changed because tastes changed
Tastes change along with modern conveniences come into play which is why people do what the OP is talking about. That is also why there is a market for appliances that look vintage, but perform with modern technology.
I bought a 1922 home from the original owner... she was a new bride when they bought it new... she was 18 and her husband 10 years older.... they had 50 wonderful years before he passed and never able to have children.
Years of declining health and several cats left the home neglected and dirty... could not see through some of the windows... she simply did the best she could.
It was all original right down to the high leg stove, knob and tube 30 amp main electric, matchstick hardwood, yellow with blue accent tile counter, built-ins etc...
My friends were so disappointed I cancelled the demo party... money was tight so I decided to simply "Restore" one room at a time... fixed the widow sash cords, clean, paint/refinish, polish, etc.
When I was done... I had a like new 1922 home and it was very comfortable and charming... Years ago all the neighbors had removed the french doors separating the living and dining rooms... mine were still in place.
The neighboring homes had all suffered numerous renovations... mostly in the 50's with metal cabinets or in the 70's with dark particle board.
When it came time to sell... my home set a new record high price for the subdivision... simply because it was unmolested... even the original knob and tube and limited outlets and the galvanized pipe were not an issue...
One person's improvement is not another's...
I'm certainly envious. My goal is to find a small old house when I semi-retire in a nice old Kentucky town. When I see remodeled kitchens with new floors and cabinets in a 1920s-1930s house, it's a turn off for me. If I could be so lucky as to find a house with original wood work, countertops, sink and fixtures, I'll know I am home. French or pockets doors would also be a huge plus in my eyes.
Your initial post was basically "everything old is better than anything new." If you stick to your guns on that why would you upgrade anything? All of a sudden you're advocating the install of a bunch of items that weren't available or common 100+ years ago. Isn't anything new upsetting the the historical integrity of the house?
Or are you just trying to say that you think people should use quality materials appropriate for the history of the house? Well, that, mixed in with an overblown rant about how bad everything is today?
PS, My home was built in 1948 and improved in 1958 and 1994. So...nope, you're way wrong about that.
Sorry, but you are completely wrong. Maybe you can go back and try reading it again. My original post was why do people butcher old house kitchens. Not why do people modify old houses.
Yes, most materials used in older products are better than materials used in newer products, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. The discussion here is why destroy the charm of an old house kitchen when it is unnecessary and when the same people are spending oodles of money in other parts of the house to restore and preserve that charm.
I never said everything is bad today. I said certain items were made of much better materials in the past. Many of those items (like radiated heat, sunflower showerheads, certain types of tile, custom built cabinets made of real high quality wood like maple, yellow pine or oak ) are still used today, but mostly limited to high end houses.
Sorry, but you are completely wrong. Maybe you can go back and try reading it again. My original post was why do people butcher old house kitchens. Not why do people modify old houses.
Yes, most materials used in older products are better than materials used in newer products, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. The discussion here is why destroy the charm of an old house kitchen when it is unnecessary and when the same people are spending oodles of money in other parts of the house to restore and preserve that charm.
I never said everything is bad today. I said certain items were made of much better materials in the past. Many of those items (like radiated heat, sunflower showerheads, certain types of tile, custom built cabinets made of real high quality wood like maple, yellow pine or oak ) are still used today, but mostly limited to high end houses.
I've had to redo kitchens and bathrooms because they were simply too far gone... that said, I always try to respect the original design in simple ways... matching or having made to match moldings, keeping electrical outlets/switches the same height and style, same for hardware and window... etc.
I pretty much agree with the OP, although I'm a little less hard-nosed about appliances. I don't mind seeing an original kitchen with new appliances. After all, they can be replaced with more period appropriate units, if desired.
Whenever I see an old house with a ruined kitchen, I just assume that the new stuff was replacing a bad 60s/70s kitchen, anyway.
Finally, I don't think the point of this thread was about telling people what they should do with their house. But instead, lamenting the further loss of original kitchens, that are already rare, and becoming more rare as time goes by. And, to add insult to injury, they are usually replaced by a generic kitchen that could be found at your local Lowe's showroom.
Sorry, but you are completely wrong. Maybe you can go back and try reading it again. My original post was why do people butcher old house kitchens. Not why do people modify old houses.
Sprinkled liberally with derogatory remarks about new materials and assumptions that everyone uses them. Sawdust and glue, "junk" etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
Yes, most materials used in older products are better than materials used in newer products, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. The discussion here is why destroy the charm of an old house kitchen when it is unnecessary and when the same people are spending oodles of money in other parts of the house to restore and preserve that charm.
You know, maybe I guess I've not seen someone spend oodles of money on one part of the house and then cheap out on the kitchen.
But I guess since a bedroom is 4 -walls and a closet but a kitchen is a working, functional room is why you might see a disparity. You can easily update a bedroom while staying faithful to the original design.
But updating a kitchen just brings you into a different world, especially if you're doing it with permits. You open up wall 1 to do a little plumbing and now you've set the ball rolling with all the code upgrades you have to do. I'm living it now.
Others here have correctly stated that kitchens at one time were for the house staff...we just don't live that way anymore.
No I'm not a fan either of the aesthetic of ultra-generic builder grade kitchens, especially when they throw in a few gew gaws in a vain attempt at going luxe. But not everyone has the $$ or desire to do a perfect period specific remodel either, and I can't say that's wrong. Thankfully, there's LOTS of middle ground.
Your initial post was basically "everything old is better than anything new."
Perhaps you should go back and read the original post, since you have misinterpreted it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AminWi
I've also been in 1940's cape cods with galley kitchens that opened to the dining room and were essentially "open concept".
All kitchens open to the dining room, duh. A true galley kitchen, however, is a wide, enclosed hallway with counters, cabinets and appliances. And doorways to the dining room, with or without a door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhelmete
So...why don't you replace it with...galvanized since that's period-appropriate? Wasn't that your point?
Again, you missed the point. The OP was not advocating keeping elements of the kitchen that are no longer functional, nor was s/he even discussing galvanized pipe in the first place; it's irrelevant to the point (the one(s) you missed).
Quote:
Originally Posted by AminWi
Here's one that is open concept by any standards
Nice house, but the kitchen is open to the family room only. I wouldn't consider that open concept (nor would I like to hear someone banging around the pots and pans while I was watching TV). Try again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by headingtoDenver
You had better be using this as your stove as well.
Oooh, that's nice. Too bad I don't have gas service at my house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C
Finally, I don't think the point of this thread was about telling people what they should do with their house. But instead, lamenting the further loss of original kitchens, that are already rare, and becoming more rare as time goes by. And, to add insult to injury, they are usually replaced by a generic kitchen that could be found at your local Lowe's showroom.
Whenever I see an old house with a ruined kitchen, I just assume that the new stuff was replacing a bad 60s/70s kitchen, anyway.
Yes this!!!
It must be far more common to live in, say, a 1900 house with a 1973 kitchen. That presents some very unique and expensive challenges for those that want to restore the 1900 version.
I have never understood this. People buy a charming old house. Sometimes they restore all of the rooms to their original splendor - except the kitchen. Instead of restoring the charm of the kitchen they rip it out and install an anachronistic stainless and granite monstristy that looks like it wandered over from the neighboring mass produced 2009 subdivision. What is the advantage of having the kitchen in an old house look like a mass produced subdivision house kitchen that does not belong in that house?
I do no see any huge disadvantage to a charming old fashioned kitchen. Sure you have to sand and pain the counters and cabinets once in a while, but you are not endlessly trying to scrub away fingerprints like on stainless, so the work load is about equal. Cabinets are cabinets, sinks are sinks and a stove makes things hot. "New" is just a question of style so why do people who purport to love historic charm go "new" or at least temporarily new in the kitchen?
It is getting harder and harder to find historic homes where the kitchen has not been butchered and "updated" (often repeatedly). Then when the temporarily modern kitchen get out of style, it is replaced with a new temporarily modern kitchen. Maybe this is just the result of marketing skills of kitchen component manufactures.
Really shocking to me is the practice of tearing out real wood cabinets (sometimes beautiful glass fronted ones) and replacing them with poorly made laminated or veneered junk constructed of sawdust mixed with glue instead of wood.
Newer layouts may make some cooking work 12% more efficient, but is that really worth having a commercial or cheap looking kitchen that is quickly out of date instead of a warm grandmas kitchen with charm and historical quality? Actually some of the feature of older kitchens that are no longer in use are very useful. For example warming ovens on the top of an oven stack. For that matter the fact that you do not have to bend over to get to the ovens in a stack is wonderful for those of us with back issues. Can you really beat the look of a 1927 monitor top fridge, or a Magic Chef 6300 stove? They really do not work all that differently than modern chrome monstrosities.
I can understand replacing a charmless 1970s or 1980s kitchen that was installed to "update" the original kitchen, but why continue the abuse? Why not restore the original kitchen as much as possible? Why do people love the charm of old houses until you get to the kitchen?
You usually pay a premium for historic charm. Why rip it out and put in the same common junk that appears in mass produced homes everywhere?
Even odder to me - when we sold our former house with a restored original 1893 kitchen (reproduction stove and hidden dishwasher fridge and microwave), it had a really neat small kitchen with on of the few remaining California Cooler cabinets. The guy who bought it tore everything out and replace it with a fantasy version of a 1950s diner kitchen. While it is a neat looking kitchen for a 1950s diner, it looks utterly absurd in an 1893 home. It must have cost him a fortune and when he tried to sell the house, prospective buyers came into the kitchen and laughed.
I couldn't agree more.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
