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Old 08-10-2016, 07:56 PM
 
5,686 posts, read 4,120,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolaireSolstice View Post
People will believe what they believe. It's more ridiculous to try and change their mind. I've seen an incredible amount of death. I have held witness to their passing, up to and including pronouncement and postmortem care. I believe in no god, but do believe in a life essence that departs. I open a window and let it fly free each time. I also believe in an echo of that life, a memory that may remain. I do not believe that it holds any harm. It does not scare me, but it can be unsettling.
So this "essence" is non-physical and can pass through our skin and the rest of our body, but it can't pass through the glass of a window?

I don't believe that people are unable to change their beliefs. I've changed my beliefs in response to new evidence many times, and I think that at least some people care about actual evidence. At least I hope that's the case.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,966 posts, read 34,636,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taluffen View Post
There are plenty of sound frequencies we cannot hear. Actually there are many things we can't see or hear but we know its there. Radio waves are invisible. Radiation is (mostly) invisible. But we can test for it and see the effects from it. Supernatural events however are impossible to reproduce, they are all hearsay, many times its the result of ignorance (like slamming door is due to changes in air pressure) or simply someone who wants attention (an adult telling the story of a ghostly encounter).
And those things we can't see or hear but know it's there -- how did we come to learn of their existence?

What about Einstein and dark energy or quintessence?

Personally, I leave my mind open to things around me; accepting that which can not be explained with the understanding that someday, a curious scientist may very well be able to explain other-worldly experiences. Science is constantly evolving.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,966 posts, read 34,636,857 times
Reputation: 7722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
So this "essence" is non-physical and can pass through our skin and the rest of our body, but it can't pass through the glass of a window?
This is an age old custom in some countries. If it provides someone solace, who are we to knock it?
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,966 posts, read 34,636,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
Dogs hear sounds because their physical ears are capable of receiving physical waves that are different wavelengths than the ones our ears can receive. I am not arguing that the the only things that exist are the things we can see. That would be ludicrous. I am arguing that a physical eye and a physical ear can only process physical stimuli. Light must reflect off an object for us to see it. If ghosts are non-physical, how is it possible that light can reflect off of them?

I am not being disrespectful to you. I will not, however, act like this idea has any credence to it.
Some people are capable of seeing things that others can not as we do not have the same degree of eyesight. You mention light reflecting off of an object in order to be seen, but what if the spirit energy were emitting light?
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:42 AM
 
13,498 posts, read 18,138,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybarnaby View Post
...If you were in my shoes, would you tell a friend that someone had died in the house they were interested in, even if it wasn't a family member but you still knew about it?
Are you out of your mind!!

People die everywhere all the time. What? You think Daddy is spooking the place?

A real no-brainer thread.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:56 AM
 
5,686 posts, read 4,120,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
And those things we can't see or hear but know it's there -- how did we come to learn of their existence?
The scientific method. We can't see electrons, but we can perform chemical experiments that verify the Bohr model. We can't see radiation, but we can verify its presence with a simple geiger counter. Simply because something can't be seen doesn't mean it can't be tested. Ghosts and spirits, however, are fundamentally beyond testing. They cannot be disproved in the same way the the existence of a talking unicorn somewhere in the universe can't be disproved. There is, however, zero evidence in favor of such a thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
What about Einstein and dark energy or quintessence?
Please, tell me....what about Einstein and dark energy? Einstein did not believe in this non-sense. Dark energy is a proposed physical thing that has physical effects and is measurable. That places it within the realm of science. Don't lump ghost mumbo jumbo in the same category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Personally, I leave my mind open to things around me; accepting that which can not be explained with the understanding that someday, a curious scientist may very well be able to explain other-worldly experiences. Science is constantly evolving.
How on earth can science test something that is non-physical? That isn't what science does. Science deals strictly with the physical realm because the physical realm can be tested, which is a requirement for the scientific method.

You aren't just keeping your mind open. You are believing something for which there is zero evidence and against which there is strong evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
This is an age old custom in some countries. If it provides someone solace, who are we to knock it?
I wouldn't personally knock something like that, but our discussion here has been whether such practices have any merit. If someone chooses to participate in that conversation, I'm not going to pretend like their practice is based on any truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Some people are capable of seeing things that others can not as we do not have the same degree of eyesight. You mention light reflecting off of an object in order to be seen, but what if the spirit energy were emitting light?
Light is a physical thing. How on earth would a non-physical thing produce light?
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Old 08-13-2016, 06:13 PM
 
525 posts, read 657,909 times
Reputation: 1616
A practice has merit because it simply does. You cannot explain away someone else's beliefs with science, because these things do not live within the science of what we know. Death is the unknown, and that scares people. We want to control that fear. The small rituals people perform shouldn't cause consternation, but apparently they do. They harm no one. People sage a house prior to moving in, I open a window when someone dies.

I have no issues with death in and of itself. We will all die. It wouldn't be something that would make me turn away from a house, and personally I prefer older houses anyway, and those have a greater likelihood of someone having died within them.

And light is energy, not matter. Our bodies perform their actions based on chemical reactions that produce energy. Newton's law of energy conservation states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed from one form to another.
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Old 08-25-2016, 01:42 PM
 
5,686 posts, read 4,120,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolaireSolstice View Post
A practice has merit because it simply does.
I hope you don't actually believe that. If a practice has merit, there should be some explanation for why it has merit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SolaireSolstice View Post
You cannot explain away someone else's beliefs with science, because these things do not live within the science of what we know.
The idea of ghosts contradicts many things we do know about science. You may be right that a person who believes in ghosts may not care about science, but doesn't the fact that those beliefs contradict our sceintific understanding of the natural world count as evidence against them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolaireSolstice View Post
Death is the unknown, and that scares people. We want to control that fear. The small rituals people perform shouldn't cause consternation, but apparently they do. They harm no one. People sage a house prior to moving in, I open a window when someone dies.
I think "befuddlement" is a better word than "consternation." I am not personally involved in what you do when a death occurs, so I don't have any personal feelings about it. This being a discussion forum, however, I have to say that I think the practice has some obvious flaws (again, why can the spirit pass through bones and skin but not glass?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolaireSolstice View Post
And light is energy, not matter. Our bodies perform their actions based on chemical reactions that produce energy. Newton's law of energy conservation states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed from one form to another.
This is an example of "knowing enough to be dangerous." Matter certainly contains energy, and that energy is expressed in the famous E=MC^2 formula. That formula is the mass-energy equivalency formula.

The idea that energy can't be destroyed is a popular foundation for the "I'm going to live on past my human death" crowd. The truth, however, is that the energy that isn't destroyed is a physical energy. It will go on to produce heat, feed bacteria, etc. It is a totally different sense of the word than the "energy" that people attribute to their own personal existence. "You" are the pattern of neural processes that produce the consciousness between your ears. When those processes stop, you will no longer exist.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:47 PM
 
152 posts, read 176,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
I hope you don't actually believe that. If a practice has merit, there should be some explanation for why it has merit.




The idea of ghosts contradicts many things we do know about science. You may be right that a person who believes in ghosts may not care about science, but doesn't the fact that those beliefs contradict our sceintific understanding of the natural world count as evidence against them?



I think "befuddlement" is a better word than "consternation." I am not personally involved in what you do when a death occurs, so I don't have any personal feelings about it. This being a discussion forum, however, I have to say that I think the practice has some obvious flaws (again, why can the spirit pass through bones and skin but not glass?).



This is an example of "knowing enough to be dangerous." Matter certainly contains energy, and that energy is expressed in the famous E=MC^2 formula. That formula is the mass-energy equivalency formula.

The idea that energy can't be destroyed is a popular foundation for the "I'm going to live on past my human death" crowd. The truth, however, is that the energy that isn't destroyed is a physical energy. It will go on to produce heat, feed bacteria, etc. It is a totally different sense of the word than the "energy" that people attribute to their own personal existence. "You" are the pattern of neural processes that produce the consciousness between your ears. When those processes stop, you will no longer exist.
Why do you call yourself Wittgenstein's Ghost and uyou know alot about it and what happens?
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Mendocino, CA
858 posts, read 954,045 times
Reputation: 573
Even if no one has died in that house, someone or something has died at that very location during the course of history.
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