Why are American homes built poorly? (Home Depot, tank, tanks, furniture)
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I live in New England where homes have their birth dates proudly posted on their fronts. Plenty from the 1700's and 1800's.
So many people want more for less but you get what you pay for. I have a builder guy, love of my life. His work is superior and his customers are always pleased. Other craftsmen have remarked on the quality of his work. Because of the cheap (often illegal, unregistered, uninsured) laborers that will throw up an addition no matter the quality, he has to lower his prices to compete. He upcharges NONE of his materials, providing receipts to the homeowner for reimbursement. And still his customers second guess him, don't take his advise, decide to "finish" parts of the construction themselves and then slow up his progress.
On the other hand the market/economy has caused many people to lose their homes.
In Atlanta, the homes "thrown up" during the 80's had construction debris for fill under slabs/foundations and they had some major issues. There are plenty of crappy houses out there!
I think this has a lot to do with it. You rarely see any construction earlier than the 1950s unless it's in a historic area.
Older homes will have dated interiors and layouts, but you can still replace things like counter tops, flooring, wall color, and accessories to make it more modern.
But most people would just rather bulldoze an older home and put up a McMansion.
Almost half the houses in New York and Boston were built before 1950. The median year of construction is 1952. And these figures are for the metro region, not just the city.
Boston: 1952
New York City: 1952
Philadelphia: 1959
Northern New Jersey: 1961
Rochester: 1963
Detroit: 1964
Hartford: 1964
Chicago: 1966
Baltimore: 1971
US average: 1975
Minneapolis: 1976
Washington DC: 1977
Seattle: 1978
Miami: 1979
Richmond: 1979
Houston: 1983
The housing stock in some parts of the U.S. is extremely old.
Years back a lady I was dating had 2 cousins come over from London England for a first time visit to the USA. Things are different over there for sure. They liked their beer at room temperature although Mike and John went back loving ICE COLD beer. Since I was in the building game I took them to a few houses and they wondered over the houses we built. In England, they claimed that when you buy a house, you get the foundation, the walls, and the roof. That about sums it up. YOU bring your own toilet, flooring, towel bars, electrical switches and receptacles, light fixtures, sinks, vanities, all appliances, plumbing fixtures, etc. They just couldn't get over the fact that we installed as a finished product all of the "extras". Don't know if it's still like this but about 10 years ago it was like that in Germany. I was involved with the methodology of a huge subdivision there and there was no specs for any of the above as they were not furnished. And this was high end housing. So I assume if you are starting out, you plan accordingly as to what you think you'll have for a house and buy those goods to take to the new house. For the builder, it's a piece of cake not to mention build time/schedule/interim. You can spend more assets on solid doors, and such. I thought it was odd from then on- you take your toilet with you when you move. The thought of using someone elses toilet was absolutely disgusting to them.
Not only that, but people who rent apartments in Germany and elsewhere--and that's most of the population--have to provide those "extras". They buy and install their own kitchen cabinets, there are no built-in closets of course, one has to buy several armoirs, and so on. Some apartments may have hall closets, if the previous owners went to the expense of doing a remodel to add that type of feature.
That's very interesting. Roofing tiles made from clay or concrete aren't that expensive in Germany. The prices for such roofing tiles range mostly from 6 to 15 Euro per m² (that's about 55 - 140 Euro per 100 sq ft). I think of renewing the roof of my house. The roof area is about 210m² (2,260 sq ft). Inclusive renewed wooden slats and all labor costs it would cost me around 8,000 - 10,000 Euro. Without renewing the wooden slats it would be about 6,000 - 8,000 Euro.
In Germany pretty much every house has wallpapers, but of course not the ones with flowers or other patterns (these were common in the 70s or 80s). It's just ingrain wallpaper (Raufaser). This kind of wallpaper has to be painted. The walls are normally made out of limestones or concrete. The walls are plastered and no one would paint a plastered wall. I don't know why, maybe it's not possible to paint on plaster. So you need these ingrain wallpaper. And this wallpaper is then painted. Even if people have some walls with plasterboard (after a rebuild for example) no one would just paint the plasterboard. People put these ingrain wallpapers on the plasterboard and then it gets painted. Removing the wallpaper from a plastered wall isn't a problem, but it's difficult to remove them from plasterboard.
Interesting tidbit about those roofing tiles in Germany. When I lived there, we had a huge and pretty rare windstorm that lasted several days. Several people a day were killed by these falling roof tiles. It became such a hazard that warnings played on the news that whole week or more.
Also, the wind damaged our own tile roof tremendously, to the point that one night I was laying in bed and suddenly a HUGE noise rained down from above - it was our tile roof collapsing into the attic.
Wind can damage any sort of roof of course. But wow - this was pretty spectacular.
I think it all centers around the American love for new things, the assumption is why built a house to last 200 years if the people 100 years from now will tear it down and build a modern home in its place anyway?
You say that like it's a bad thing.
I've lived in a very old house (over 100 years old) before. It had it's charms, but it also had definite drawbacks.
Like my grandmother always used to say, "Hey - I lived in the good ol' days - and they weren't so good."
Know the Italian Earthquake that killed 250 people? that was a 6.2
The Loma Prieta Earthquake in California was a 6.9 (7x stronger) and only killed 63 people.
You are telling me the buildings in Italy were better than the ones in California?
Hurricane Katrina did similar amounts of Damage than the 1953 North Sea Storm but Katrina had 2X the Storm surge, your telling me the buildings were better in Europe?
Earthquake numbers are as misleading a temperatures without heat/feel indices. All depends on how far deep was the Quake, and in the recent Italian quake it was close to the surface, only 6 miles deep. Those are the ones that can be most damaging, like the quake in Wellington, NZ, which, again, struck close to the surface.
As for the Italian town, these structures were built centuries ago, and what would you expect without reinforced concrete and other reinforcements!!!
Recall the 7.1 that struck Seattle some 15 years ago, the only real damage was to the dome at the state capital, built many decades ago. But again, earthquake numbers are so misleading, as how deep did it strike?
NV is the 3rd most active seismic state in the country, there's quakes going on continually, but, they're centered so far below ground, we don't feel them, but rarely!
Not only that, but people who rent apartments in Germany and elsewhere--and that's most of the population--have to provide those "extras". They buy and install their own kitchen cabinets, there are no built-in closets of course, one has to buy several armoirs, and so on. Some apartments may have hall closets, if the previous owners went to the expense of doing a remodel to add that type of feature.
True, but mostly because people don't want their homes look like all the other homes in a subdivision - what is very common here in the US, where people follow the general trends, and their interiors are very similar to each others.
Generally, people in Europe don't paint and finish their homes for future resale, or to keep up with their neighbors or friends. They don't buy mass production or cheap "reproduction" of some pseudo-French, Mediterranean or "Baroque" styles.
Homeowners or even renters are very proud of their homes, and try to finish them by their own unique taste.
Nothing is done in a hurry. Every home interior is unique and express their owner's taste and budget.
People love home projects and do lots of work themselves. There are many different home improvement stores with a huge selection of anything and everything one can imagine. People create their own style, not a big box style you can find in most US homes. They put in lots of money and effort, but they also stay in one place most of their life.
I don't think people actually want their homes finished by the builders. Most people don't.
True, but mostly because people don't want their homes look like all the other homes in a subdivision - what is very common here in the US, where people follow the general trends, and their interiors are very similar to each others.
Generally, people in Europe don't paint and finish their homes for future resale, or to keep up with their neighbors or friends. They don't buy mass production or cheap "reproduction" of some pseudo-French, Mediterranean or "Baroque" styles.
Homeowners or even renters are very proud of their homes, and try to finish them by their own unique taste.
Nothing is done in a hurry. Every home interior is unique and express their owner's taste and budget.
People love home projects and do lots of work themselves. There are many different home improvement stores with a huge selection of anything and everything one can imagine. People create their own style, not a big box style you can find in most US homes. They put in lots of money and effort, but they also stay in one place most of their life.
I don't think people actually want their homes finished by the builders. Most people don't.
Do you realize what a HUGE business home improvements and renovations are in the US? Do you realize how many different home improvement stores with huge selections of anything and everything one can imagine are available and profiting massively in the US, because so many Americans love their homes and are working on finishing them in their own unique style and taste?
Yes, many Americans do think about future resale when they renovate their homes - because that's a smart thing to do, especially when people move on average about once every seven years. It makes good sense economically to maximize one's return on an investment. That doesn't mean that American home owners and renters aren't proud of their homes, and that we don't try to build or remodel them according to our own taste.
I lived in Europe and frankly, to me the furniture and fixtures available in stores looked pretty cookie cutter and followed European trends, so please don't pretend that trends aren't common as dirt in Europe (as they are elsewhere) - they may not be exactly the SAME trends as are in the US, but they're trends just the same.
As for Europeans "not buying mass production stuff" - I have to call BS on that one as well. Like I said, I've seen the stuff in your European Big Box stores and furniture stores first hand, and like American goods, there's good stuff and cheap stuff, and everything in between. You have your Big Box stores and mass produced goods just like we do, and apparently plenty of Europeans are buying them since such stores flourish there as well as they do here.
When I lived in Germany, I was frankly mortified to see Germans stripping 200 year old painted armoires or trunks down to the plain pine - or worse yet, slapping a coat of black paint on a Biedermeier table and chairs. OMG. I actually got a great deal on an armoire with original paint from 1796 because the antique dealer told me that at the time (1990s) Germans didn't want "that old style stuff." Their loss, is all I have to say. I love the piece and it appraised very nicely due to it's original paint.
I'm not saying all this to criticize Europeans - I'm just pointing out what I consider to be "the rest of the story" when it comes to Europeans and their decorating and building ideas. Been there, done that, seen it with my own eyes. Oh, and had the tile roof fall in on me too, for that matter.
This thread is kind of stupid. Sure, middle class tract housing in the south is total junk. I live in the great white north where you actually have to build the house properly. Full basements with insulated walls. R-25 walls. R-49 ceilings. Argon-filled EnergyStar glazing. My house is stuffed full of laminated beams that are far stronger than first growth lumber. I have a "lifetime" asphalt shingle roof that will still look OK when I'm dead. I also need to meet wind code because I'm on the coast.
You can't build a stone or concrete house here. You'd have to glue 4" of closed cell foam to it to meet thermal code and you'd have big problems with thermal bridging at doors & windows. I suppose you could install a slate roof but the labor costs of sending a slate guy up on your roof every few years as freeze/thaw causes failures are outrageous when you add them up over several decades. You're way better off replacing a thick asphalt "lifetime" roof every 30 or 40 years.
Imagine what would happen if all American housing was superinsulated.
But the industry and government won't like that - would require THICKER walls to achieve such R levels.
(Conservation House had 300mm / 12 inch thick walls)
Last edited by jetgraphics; 08-26-2016 at 01:29 AM..
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Plenty from the 1700's and 1800's. 
