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Old 10-13-2016, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Southwest
673 posts, read 597,222 times
Reputation: 732

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01 View Post
I read online that some of the new ones require a ballast replacement so I am gonna stick with the old ones. I have one set that is failing because it takes a few minutes to turn on unless you can tap them.

We replaced old kitchen fluorescents with LEDs and one of the benefits was, no ballasts!
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Old 10-13-2016, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Southwest
673 posts, read 597,222 times
Reputation: 732
Default Certainly

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
led's are really not that simple because of all the various types ,especially if a dimming type . there is no standardized system , kind of like beta or vhs .

we have line voltage dimming systems ,0-10 volt systems and a few others . some have external drivers ,others internal .
Certainly they are more complicated than the average consumer is going to understand, including me. I don't understand what makes electricity work in my house either. I just know that when I flip a switch or plug something in, it works.

What I meant by "not that complicated for the consumer" is that we don't have to understand how a technology works to go into the big box store and buy the right bulb or fixture, we just need to understand we need to look for what works specifically for our intended use. Thus, it isn't an excuse or justification for avoiding giving up a defunct and inefficient technology.

Still, apparently some people don't understand that much. Perhaps retailers and manufacturers need to do a better job making the distinctions clear so people don't buy the wrong items. They need to educate consumers about their products.

I've always thought they did a poor job of making it clear to consumers that CFLs contain mercury and need to be handled carefully and disposed of properly. No telling how many CFLs are in our landfills because most people didn't/don't even know that.
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Old 10-13-2016, 04:27 PM
 
3,195 posts, read 1,800,762 times
Reputation: 8427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
I switched to CFLs over 20 years ago. I still have some of the early CFLs in the master bedroom ceiling fixture. They come on slow, which is wonderful when you are turning lights on while your eyes are dark adjusted. The only holdouts were the kitchen ceiling lights, which were 14 can fixtures with 65 watt bulbs on a dimmer. That was over 900 watts when they were on bright. I went to LEDs a couple years ago, and dropped the max to 182 watts. Plus, the incandescents went out before the dimmer was all the way down, and the LEDs don't go out unless I turn them off. It's easy enough to see in the kitchen with only 20 watts of light.

About a year ago I scrounged up all my old incandescent bulbs and put them in a garage sale. They sold for $.25 a bulb. About 30 of them were 250 watt 1950s photo floods that only were rated to last 100 hours.

BTW, in the last 20 years I have only had four CFLs fail. All four were outdoor porch lights that got left on much of every winter.
The bolded amazes me.

Over the past 2 years in my 3 bedroom two bath house, I have had to replace 9 CFL bulbs. I know because I have them stored in a box to take to the recycler when they are all finally dead.

I have moved on to LED, and I'm never looking back. So far, no LED bulbs have needed replacement.
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Old 10-13-2016, 04:31 PM
 
70,830 posts, read 71,189,712 times
Reputation: 48428
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgrdr View Post
Certainly they are more complicated than the average consumer is going to understand, including me. I don't understand what makes electricity work in my house either. I just know that when I flip a switch or plug something in, it works.

What I meant by "not that complicated for the consumer" is that we don't have to understand how a technology works to go into the big box store and buy the right bulb or fixture, we just need to understand we need to look for what works specifically for our intended use. Thus, it isn't an excuse or justification for avoiding giving up a defunct and inefficient technology.

Still, apparently some people don't understand that much. Perhaps retailers and manufacturers need to do a better job making the distinctions clear so people don't buy the wrong items. They need to educate consumers about their products.

I've always thought they did a poor job of making it clear to consumers that CFLs contain mercury and need to be handled carefully and disposed of properly. No telling how many CFLs are in our landfills because most people didn't/don't even know that.


the problem is that these products are not something just sold through trained electrical distributors . they are sold by every one and anyone . most of these people who sell them do not know much themselves nor does anyone teach them .

most retailers do not buy direct from manufacturers . they buy through master supply places who act as middlemen and sell hundreds of thousands of products from a catalog .

that gives all these home centers and small hardware stores access to product without doing hundreds of thousands of dollars in those products so as to be a direct distributors ..

i spent 40 years in the electrical wholesaling business . while i sold quite a bit of lighting my expertise is in motor controls and variable frequency drives .
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Old 10-13-2016, 05:38 PM
 
Location: IN
20,786 posts, read 35,818,512 times
Reputation: 13206
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikabike View Post
I am, and not just 60 watters. 75, 90 (halogen), 100. The good kind that are less yellow than standard incandescents and less blue than LEDs. I refuse to sully the household atmosphere with CFL, except for one closet light.

We do not leave ANY lights on all night and frequently turn them off as soon as we are not in that room. Switching on and off frequently is better suited to incandescents.
LEDs are NOT CFLs, though. A five second google search would confirm this. LEDs are superior in just about every way to obsolete incandescent bulbs from the 19th century.
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Old 10-13-2016, 05:39 PM
 
Location: IN
20,786 posts, read 35,818,512 times
Reputation: 13206
Quote:
Originally Posted by rugrats2001 View Post
The bolded amazes me.

Over the past 2 years in my 3 bedroom two bath house, I have had to replace 9 CFL bulbs. I know because I have them stored in a box to take to the recycler when they are all finally dead.

I have moved on to LED, and I'm never looking back. So far, no LED bulbs have needed replacement.
CFLs should never be used in environments where they are turned off and on with frequency as that dramatically shortens bulb life. I have had no issues with LEDs at all, extremely high amount of quality light and high lumens at a fraction of the watts used.
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
9,000 posts, read 2,939,193 times
Reputation: 13482
Fluorescent lights were pushed on most schools a long time ago. An experience I had with them was this: At a college I attended, there was a large lounge, filled with many types of comfortable chairs. People went there to read newspapers, talk with friends, or just to relax. Often, people would give you friendly glances and smile when you came in.

Then one day, a crew came in and replaced all the incandescent lights with fluorescent ones. Immediately, there was a noticeable change in behavior there. There were no friendly smiles being exchanged, no one did any talking, no one was just leaning back and relaxing. Everyone using this place was doing nothing but studying classwork and was ignoring everyone else. They did the same thing later to the college library, with similar results among the patrons. It was no longer a friendly, relaxed environment, as it had been previously.

Unlike the filaments in incandescent lights, that glow continuously, fluorescent lights give off a series of pulses, 60 Hz per second. You can't detect this consciously, just like the pulses of a TV picture blend into a perception of a continuous image. But maybe this is disrupting people in a subconscious way and changing their behavior from friendly to aloof or agitating them in ways that aren't obvious? What would 12+ years sitting daily under those bright, rapidly-pulsing lights do to a person? I don't imagine anyone with a commercial interest in fluorescent or LED lights would be inclined to approve of such talk as this.
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
14,160 posts, read 44,709,521 times
Reputation: 12732
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
CFLs should never be used in environments where they are turned off and on with frequency as that dramatically shortens bulb life. I have had no issues with LEDs at all, extremely high amount of quality light and high lumens at a fraction of the watts used.
"CFLs should never be used in environments where they are turned off and on with frequency as that dramatically shortens bulb life." This is true for any fluorescent lamp. They don't "like" operating cycles less than about 15 minutes. A fluorescent that gets hard to start from short-cycling can sometimes be "fixed" by turning it on and letting it run several hours - assuming you can get it to start. Sort of like an "Italian tuneup" for a car.

My experience with LED is like yours - they cost more to buy, but are otherwise the best thing out there in terms of longevity and efficiency.
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:53 PM
 
26,579 posts, read 52,046,854 times
Reputation: 20358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald View Post
Fluorescent lights were pushed on most schools a long time ago. An experience I had with them was this: At a college I attended, there was a large lounge, filled with many types of comfortable chairs. People went there to read newspapers, talk with friends, or just to relax. Often, people would give you friendly glances and smile when you came in.

Then one day, a crew came in and replaced all the incandescent lights with fluorescent ones. Immediately, there was a noticeable change in behavior there. There were no friendly smiles being exchanged, no one did any talking, no one was just leaning back and relaxing. Everyone using this place was doing nothing but studying classwork and was ignoring everyone else. They did the same thing later to the college library, with similar results among the patrons. It was no longer a friendly, relaxed environment, as it had been previously.

Unlike the filaments in incandescent lights, that glow continuously, fluorescent lights give off a series of pulses, 60 Hz per second. You can't detect this consciously, just like the pulses of a TV picture blend into a perception of a continuous image. But maybe this is disrupting people in a subconscious way and changing their behavior from friendly to aloof or agitating them in ways that aren't obvious? What would 12+ years sitting daily under those bright, rapidly-pulsing lights do to a person? I don't imagine anyone with a commercial interest in fluorescent or LED lights would be inclined to approve of such talk as this.
Lighting is a science with almost unlimited possibilities for options.

I'm very careful how I light the Hospital and have had to demonstrate the how and why several time to the Administrator... once explained and shown... it was no longer an issue.
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Old 10-13-2016, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,253 posts, read 1,713,550 times
Reputation: 3080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald View Post
Fluorescent lights were pushed on most schools a long time ago. An experience I had with them was this: At a college I attended, there was a large lounge, filled with many types of comfortable chairs. People went there to read newspapers, talk with friends, or just to relax. Often, people would give you friendly glances and smile when you came in.

Then one day, a crew came in and replaced all the incandescent lights with fluorescent ones. Immediately, there was a noticeable change in behavior there. There were no friendly smiles being exchanged, no one did any talking, no one was just leaning back and relaxing. Everyone using this place was doing nothing but studying classwork and was ignoring everyone else. They did the same thing later to the college library, with similar results among the patrons. It was no longer a friendly, relaxed environment, as it had been previously.

Unlike the filaments in incandescent lights, that glow continuously, fluorescent lights give off a series of pulses, 60 Hz per second. You can't detect this consciously, just like the pulses of a TV picture blend into a perception of a continuous image. But maybe this is disrupting people in a subconscious way and changing their behavior from friendly to aloof or agitating them in ways that aren't obvious? What would 12+ years sitting daily under those bright, rapidly-pulsing lights do to a person? I don't imagine anyone with a commercial interest in fluorescent or LED lights would be inclined to approve of such talk as this.
And what makes you think 60hz behaves any differently through a filament?

Your theory is nonsense.
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