adding a front porch to a 1960 Colonial house (PICS) (flooring, how much, shingles)

[karen_in_nh_2012]

Hi, all. I am adding a front porch to the original part of this house, where the front door is centered (note, the part of the house on the right near the garage is inset from the original part -- it's a huge addition from the late 1970s) ...

to make it look more like a farmhouse (or farmhouse Colonial, if there is such a thing!), like these ...


This summer we will likely just put in the foundation and flooring, then next year we'll add the posts and roof (although of course in doing the foundation, we will plan for the roof -- it will definitely be a PORCH, not just a deck!).

Alas, where I live the frost line is 48". The porch will likely be 34' wide by 7-12' deep (see below for more on that huge variation!). For the foundation, I seem to have 3 options:

(1) Dig down below the frost line and use a regular plastic concrete footing form (or similar) with a 48" concrete form tube attached to it, then concrete poured into the tube -- the "usual" way to do it. Relatively inexpensive (probably about $30-35 in materials for each footing), but very time-consuming and hard work -- and since I likely won't do the digging myself, I have to pay someone else to do it (at least $30/hour and likely $45/hour).

(2) Use something like these EZ Tubes (from EZ Crete, a company that's just a few miles from where I live) ...

They appear to be MUCH easier to use than the tubes so would save some time in terms of concrete preparation & pouring, etc. The cons are that you still have to dig a huge hole (the base of these things is 22"! ), and they cost $109 each for the configuration shown.

(3) Have metal piers installed, like these (note, the porch will have lattice all around to keep critters out so you wouldn't see them) ...

The biggest pro is that the company that sells them does all the work INCLUDING installation -- there's no digging and no concrete work -- the company installs them and you can build on them immediately. The biggest con is the price -- $240 each for a 7' pier!! I would likely need at least 4 for the smallest porch I would build and as many as 10-12 if I do a wrap-around, so we're talking a lot of money! OTOH, I would save all the digging/concrete costs, which would likely be substantial -- although maybe not $240 each, substantial! (Note, the company's rep gave me prices for 7' and 9' piers, but now that I think about it, I wouldn't need one anywhere near 7' -- more like 5', as my current concrete steps to my front door are only about 15" high. So I will ask him if they sell shorter piers and for how much.)

Any thoughts about the foundation?

And second, what size porch to build??? Again, here are the options:

(1) 7' deep porch (by 34', the width of the original part of the house): right now I have a concrete walkway from the driveway to the front door that starts 7.5' out from the house. If I want to avoid having to demolish that walkway*, my porch could only be 7' absolute maximum, and 6.5' might look better given where the walkway is.

*Note, I met with my code guy yesterday about other things, and he said he didn't think removing the walkway would be a big deal -- just a few hours with a jackhammer.

(2) 10-12' deep porch (again by 34'): I would vastly prefer this size, but would have to demolish the walkway. Maybe not a big deal.

(3) Wrap-around porch: 10-12' deep "main" porch that will wrap around the left side of the house. That "left-side" section would be the same 10-12' depth of the porch in front of the original part of the house going out to the left by about 8-10'; it would have stairs leading to my side/back yard, which has a large screened porch (you can see it on the left in the first picture in this thread). I love the IDEA of this option, but it would be almost twice the size of option #2 and so would cost a lot more.

Aaaggh! Sometimes I think having too many options is a bad thing ...

Any thoughts?

[chet everett]

Technically you have a “garrison” and that may influence how you choose to tie roof for porch into existing facade.

Assuming you can have the wider porch and still have decent roof slope that would be my preference.

Any zoning issues for front yard?

What about tree?

[karen_in_nh_2012]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Technically you have a “garrison” and that may influence how you choose to tie roof for porch into existing facade.

Assuming you can have the wider porch and still have decent roof slope that would be my preference.

Any zoning issues for front yard?

What about tree?

Great questions, Chet! The roof would be a simple shed roof starting right below the 2nd-floor windows like the one in the image right below the picture of my house. (We've checked, i.e. there's enough slope for even a 12'-deep porch.) If I go with the wrap-around, the roof would still start right below the 2nd-floor windows -- it would be like the one in the photo of the piers with the wrap-around porch.

RE: zoning, in my neighborhood the setback is 30' from the front property line. I have >50 feet in front of my house so I have plenty of room for a 12'-deep porch, which I think is as deep as I would want to go.

RE: trees, I totally forgot to mention that the 2 very very tall trees in my front yard (one in the middle that you're probably referring to PLUS the one at the far left near the street in my first picture) will be coming out within the next month or so (free to me). I normally would HATE the idea of losing trees, but that one in the middle of the front yard is a pain in the butt. Oh, and the landscaping that was right in front of the house is mostly gone, in anticipation of the porch (I've been planning this for years!) -- I've planted flower beds in front instead.

Any thoughts on the foundation? Our 48" frost line is killing me!

[chet everett]

Honestly there is nothing all that unusual about the 48" frost line. The question of "traditional vs prefab vs helical piles" is usually one of "speed vs cost". Given that you are in no hurry I'd lean toward traditional. If you have access to a rental firm that can provide you with a self propelled auger machine that really takes much the hardest work out of the equation...

[robr2]

One thing to note is that if you plan on making the second story windows smaller so the porch roof will fit, you may want to check with the building inspector. There may a code requiring a minimum square footage of glass for each room based on it's size.

The requirement forced my neighbor to reduce the slope of his family room addition and in the past 15 years he has had the roof changed from asphalt shingles, to rubber, to metal.

[karen_in_nh_2012]

Originally Posted by robr2

One thing to note is that if you plan on making the second story windows smaller so the porch roof will fit, you may want to check with the building inspector. There may a code requiring a minimum square footage of glass for each room based on it's size.

The requirement forced my neighbor to reduce the slope of his family room addition and in the past 15 years he has had the roof changed from asphalt shingles, to rubber, to metal.

Luckily, in my case the porch roof will fit WITHOUT altering the second-floor windows in any way.

[TrapperL]

Can't tell from the pic but if the front of the house is brick, you might rethink the project. It's going to be more than simple counter flashing to keep water out of the porch ceiling during a hard rain. I run into these added porches all the time where the rafters and ceiling joists are rotted out after somebody thought counter flashing was going to stop the water. Back in the 90's, I had 2 crews that that's all they did as warranty work for one of the national builders who thought counter flashing was all it was going to need only to end up with water in the house. We basically had to tear the front brick and porch down and rebuild it with the flashing going back behind the drain plane.

[karen_in_nh_2012]

Originally Posted by TrapperL

Can't tell from the pic but if the front of the house is brick, you might rethink the project. It's going to be more than simple counter flashing to keep water out of the porch ceiling during a hard rain. I run into these added porches all the time where the rafters and ceiling joists are rotted out after somebody thought counter flashing was going to stop the water. Back in the 90's, I had 2 crews that that's all they did as warranty work for one of the national builders who thought counter flashing was all it was going to need only to end up with water in the house. We basically had to tear the front brick and porch down and rebuild it with the flashing going back behind the drain plane.

No brick -- it's cedar clapboard siding. Sorry that wasn't clear!

[Rivertowntalk]

I did a similar project and drilled the holes with an auger attached to a 3 point behind a tractor. I cut off the diameter of 12" diameter tube needed for above the ground and used rebar in the holes. The drilled auger holes were the form for below the ground. Poured the concrete using a mixer and bags of concrete, which are fairly inexpensive. Set the bolts in the concrete. Key is getting your holes drilled perfectly where they need to go so that everything lines up. Used metal plates to attach to posts and ran them straight up. The flashing has to go under the siding. I carried out the eve further than normal and it helps keep the rain off the porch. Of course, any time you dig or drill, you have to have Digsafe come out first and check it out so that you do not drill into a gas line, or electrical, etc. For the rafters, hurricane ties work really well.

My shed roof is a 3/12 and it is shingled, but I used 3 layers of roof felt underneath and have had no issues with leaks. A 4/12 would have been better.

[southernnaturelover]

Those are some beautiful old pines, it would be a shame to see them come down.