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Originally Posted by b-nasty
I Induction ranges are better than gas, and they don't require huge hoods and makeup air to exhaust hazardous combustion byproducts.
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Induction is cool. I want to have an induction stove in my next home (a motor-home), but they are not better. The advantage of gas for serious cooks is you have better and immediate control of the temperature. It also heats faster. No hood is required. The hoods are to remove cooking fumes, not gas byproducts. Many gas stoves do not have hoods or any other form of exhaust.
Come to think of it, tiny motor-homes where your bed is eight feet form the stove, do not have hoods. They do have general purpose vents, but not specifically for the stove. That is why I like the idea of an induction stove-top in my future motor-home. I can remove it and take it outside to cook stinky stuff.
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Central and ductless heat pumps are getting better and better at working in very-low outside temperatures, and heat-pump water heaters are cheaper to run than even most gas units. [/quote]
Heat pumps are good for moderate climates. Not for cold or super hot places. They also cost a fortune and require an available field for the heat exchanger. We looked at putting one in, but the cost was 10x that of a gas boiler ($60,000 vs $6000), but that is in large part due to the location and configuration of our property. We also would still have needed a gas furnace or boiler for the winters. But that heat pump would have paid for itself in savings in only 2654 years. Of course we can heat most of our house fairly comfortably using the 150 year old fireplaces. For us, firewood is free. In fact, getting rid of fallen and dead tree parts is a nuisance.
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You also remove the dangers of carbon monoxide completely; gas furnaces and water heaters kill hundreds of people every year. [/quote]
Where do you get that figure?
Our gas stove is not vented at all. We have had a few incidents where it was left on and the igniter did not fire and the house filled with unburned gas (which is the threat, the fumes after a clean burn are inconsequential). No one dies or got sick. However had we lit a match - boom! That risk is nearly gone now between electric igniters and thermal gas flow cutoffs it will only happen if both malfunction or if your stove is old enough to not have them. In winter when the boiler malfunctioned, we turned the oven all the way up and left it open to heat the kitchen. the fireplaces only heat the old parts of the house. On of our carbon monoxide detectors has a meter on it. the fireplaces make more in the house than the stove does by far, but neither create dangerous levels.
Our gas dryer vent came apart in the basement. It was more than two months before I could fix it (a few years later, it came apart again - don't buy discount off brand duct tape). The only problem venting into the basement caused was a warmer basement and lots of cobwebs and lint all over. It actually made a nice warm moist atmosphere in the winter. There were no harmful fumes and no impact to the people and pets who sleep in the basement. No carbon monoxide detectors went off.
We also have a 210,000 BTU pool heater in our carriage house. The pool contractor never got round to putting in the vent (he went back to the store and found his wife in flagrante delicto with his business partner on a pool table (the"pool" store sold pools and pool tables - cute idea) and the whole business disappeared the next day). The pool heater ends up venting into the carriage house. Again no problem being upstairs when it is running except it gets pretty moist. the feral cats we got from the pound lived up there for several years until we figured out how to keep them out. they were fine, we were fine. the carbon monoxide detectors do not beep.
Most gas appliances are very clean burning which is why you can just vent then through the side wall of the house, or not at all. Older ones had to vent out above the roof, but not in recent history. At least not since about 1990 (give or take a decade).
The real danger of gas stoves is fire. But then electric stoves also cause fires. when I was in college, I nearly burned my parents house down and killed myself with an electric stove. (Turned on the wrong burner planning to make soup. Went to my room and fell asleep and a plastic microwave popcorn popper that was sitting on the other burner caught fire and set the counter on fire. Kind of a miracle that i woke up at all). electricity also shorts out or shorts through people and stops their heart. So if you want to tout statistics about how many people gas stoves kill, you need to compare the number killed by electric. Oh and do not forget to add in EMF deaths from people who have to live near the big transmission lines.
Electric water heaters are just a bad idea. Very poor efficiency short lived and electric is useless for whole house tankless water heaters.
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In addition, it's better for the environment to heat with electric in almost all states. Even in states with electricity generation mostly provided by natural gas, these power stations have cleaner exhaust than residential heaters. [/quote]
Where do you get the final conclusion? Have you ever seen a gas power plant? What about states that still use coal or petroleum? (Coal petroleum and NG provided nearly 70% of electricity in 2017 Nuclear is about 20%) Nuclear production comes with its own pollution. No means of producing electricity is truely clean.
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Not to mention the shift to renewables: an electric house can be (partially) powered by local solar panels.
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Renewable are a long way from becoming a practical alternative. Without coal, they have difficulty keeping up with electrical demand. Demand is growing like crazy. In the USA, renewable will probably never catch up. Demand is growing faster than technology is making renewable a practical was to produce extra power. Renewables help, but the net impact on the environment/climate is pretty small. It is not just about making electricity but ls about making the things that make and store and distribute electricity and maintaining them.
Solar is still impractical in most places and too expensive where it is more practical (AZ for example). Mostly the issue is storage batteries. However the panels are expensive to maintain and replace as well. Then you need a tracking system. Inverters. Plus you need factories to make all the panels, batteries and equipment, machines to mine the materials. then there is the waste products.
One big advantage of solar is there is conceptually no need for a distribution system. However the battery problem is a significant problem.
Another alternative is in house fuel cells. Those can run on natural gas and produce water, heat and electricity - all useful things. However they are crazy expensive and take up the equivalent of a garage bay for a household sized one.
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Gas is cheap right now, because the externalities aren't factored in. As more and more areas start to consider the impacts of burning fossil fuels, it's pretty likely that the cost of natural gas/propane/oil heating will increase as taxes are levied on outdated methods of generating heat.[/quote]
Gas is cheap because it is plentiful and very easy to obtain. It burns very clean, especially now. It will undoubtedly be a major or the major fuel source for the next 50 years or more. Possibly for a century.
I know the cheerleader catchphrases and talking points sound really nice, but they do not reflect realities. One option some people think is a good idea is to simply reduce the availability of electricity or other power sources. sure lots of people will die, but the survivors will have a cleaner planet to live on (if they can figure out how to get food, because farming is a huge consumer of power and a huge source of pollution. Of course there are also people who think the best answer is to kill off all humans and then the world will be completely natural, clean and beautiful. But then they forget that one major volcano eruption produces more toxic fumes and carbon than all of humanity does in a decade or more.
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