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Old 09-07-2019, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Floribama
15,296 posts, read 31,830,998 times
Reputation: 14173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ansible90 View Post
So we finally got rid of the florescent flicker only to replace it with LED flicker?

I just want an LED bulb that doesn't go bad. I have spent way too much money replacing bad ones.
I have had a few of the cheaper ones go bad. Unfortunately the better ones like GE and Philips are still expensive.
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:13 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
1,475 posts, read 1,431,185 times
Reputation: 1020
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
"In order to get the right voltage to the LEDs, the devices are built as an array and cascaded in a chain of 22 to 40..."

translated: series connection of devices needing low voltage, like the old series connected Xmas thee light strings. When one unit in the series fails, the rest go dark. Inferring: the new configuration is likely to have a lifespan far shorter than current configurations in addition to the 60 hz X 2 flicker that worsens as a leg fails.

The configuration doesn't appear to me to be a game changer except as another way to make cheap annoying electronics. Make a better RC circuit on the same substrate and you might get my attention.

Eventually, some energy guru will figure out that homes need 12VDC power sockets (with fault protection) just as much as 120VAC ones. Many now have 5 volts supplied by various USB adapters, which can be used for some circuitry, but 12VDC is more flexible and powerful per amp.
The problem with twelve volt is much heavier conductors and fire hazard. Lower voltage = higher amp draw. On a boat I had the most dangerous wire was a 12 volt conductor the size of my thumb that ran the length of the boat to the anchor windlass. An unprotected short in that would cause a hell of a fire.
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:01 PM
 
7,110 posts, read 3,943,974 times
Reputation: 14699
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Just as the administration lifts the regulations on light bulb efficiency a new device has been developed that likely will wipe out the incandescent. Or at least those not used primarily for heating.

The device is basically a large number of LEDs on a common substrate with four diodes. The LEDs are in a serial string and basically run directly off the 120 volts with the diodes providing rectification. So basically you have the whole device built into a simple die of a nitride semiconductor. That reads dirt cheap.

Only draw back may be 120 cycle pulsing. But that will certainly be fine for industrial apps and things like street lights. And high output devices may well be very simple.
So...they won't replace incandescents because of the 120 cycle pulsing? Yet you say they will. ???

Diode: a semiconductor device with two terminals, typically allowing the flow of current in one direction only.
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
18,129 posts, read 54,838,404 times
Reputation: 31116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrow1 View Post
The problem with twelve volt is much heavier conductors and fire hazard. Lower voltage = higher amp draw. On a boat I had the most dangerous wire was a 12 volt conductor the size of my thumb that ran the length of the boat to the anchor windlass. An unprotected short in that would cause a hell of a fire.
Entirely correct. Using the same logic, 5 volt 3 amp USB in the home has some issues as well. 12 volt supplies are already used for outdoor lighting. As with 120v circuits, fault protection and overload protection are good things.

My point was that lighting circuits no longer need to be 120vac (as indeed are some low voltage specialty circuits already). A quality voltage reduction, and superior filtering is as close as a quality computer power supply. LED lighting using such power allows for simpler cheaper lamps and a more robust, flicker free power source for multiple lamps. With the addition of a battery circuit, lights are not subject to powerline fluctuation, and can remain on for periods of short power failure.
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,366 posts, read 5,115,885 times
Reputation: 5946
Better to distribute reasonably high voltage and step it down locally if needed.

You can run 12 or 28 but it leads to large heavy harnesses.

Many years ago on the first color copier we actually used a time multiplexed system buss. 4 wires out and four back. Put a diode in series with the loan between an out and an in and you could control the load. Ran it at a few thousand steps per second and at about four times the rated component voltage. Later systems of course simply use a simple receiver and a power switch of a DC buss.

In general ir is thought that the 120 flicker will not be a problem. But we shall see. A capacitor across the bridge could also strongly reduce the flicker. But it adds an expensive component. There are also the possible usage of fluorescent intermediaries as was suggested in an earlier post.
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:36 PM
 
431 posts, read 117,353 times
Reputation: 1168
Well, if the new LEDs are better than CFLs, I'll be happy.

That whole promise of longer life of CFLs over incandescent was BS imo. I have a graveyard box in the garage of CFLs that burned out faster than incandescents - plus never liked how long they took to get to max brightness.
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Old 09-07-2019, 05:00 PM
 
4,177 posts, read 1,667,119 times
Reputation: 8253
we fell for the CFL.
our bad. we will wait
until LED is required.
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Old 09-07-2019, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,366 posts, read 5,115,885 times
Reputation: 5946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekker99 View Post
Well, if the new LEDs are better than CFLs, I'll be happy.

That whole promise of longer life of CFLs over incandescent was BS imo. I have a graveyard box in the garage of CFLs that burned out faster than incandescents - plus never liked how long they took to get to max brightness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkeydance View Post
we fell for the CFL.
our bad. we will wait
until LED is required.
Sorry guys. Nothing wrong with good CFLs. And the mechanism is basically exactly the same as the fluorescent tubes we have been using for the last 100 years or so. Buy cheap ones they may not last. But we have a half dozen that have been going for 3 years with one failure.

And so far I have replaced 8 of 18 fluorescent with LED. Working great. Better light and lower bills.
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Old 09-07-2019, 05:12 PM
 
431 posts, read 117,353 times
Reputation: 1168
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Sorry guys. Nothing wrong with good CFLs. And the mechanism is basically exactly the same as the fluorescent tubes we have been using for the last 100 years or so. Buy cheap ones they may not last. But we have a half dozen that have been going for 3 years with one failure.

And so far I have replaced 8 of 18 fluorescent with LED. Working great. Better light and lower bills.
No such thing as a 'good' CFL. It's like going to Vegas and rolling dice....a gamble.

Fail.
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Old 09-07-2019, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,366 posts, read 5,115,885 times
Reputation: 5946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekker99 View Post
No such thing as a 'good' CFL. It's like going to Vegas and rolling dice....a gamble.

Fail.
Silliness. Good CFLs are much superior to incandescent. Not as good as LEDs.

From Consumer Reports....

**********************************
But as Consumer Reports' lightbulb Ratings show, some CFLs are impressive or even excellent overall. They aren’t the top scoring lightbulbs—LEDs are—but they’re cheaper and the best CFLs we tested are bright, cast a warm light, are quicker to fully brighten, and aren’t greatly affected by frequently turning them on and off. CFLs use about 75 percent less energy than the incandescent bulbs they replace and are claimed to last 7 to 10 times longer.
**********************************
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