Honeycomb in Concrete Column- Wat to do? (floor, roof, foundations)
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Honeycombs in these columns came out as soon as the form was taken off. What should I do? I am a contractor. the workers didnt use a vibrator and casted the column in half. They did used a long bamboo to stuff the material well inside. What should I do now to get a remedy or should I break the whole column and re-made them?
Like the good olde boy would say we got problems here in River City. Well maybe, maybe not.
Your photos are so small it is difficult to tell exactly what is going on. It may be that they did not go poking along the walls of the form enough and those honeycombs are more cosmetic in nature than anything else. On the other hand if the voids are typical and extend into the structure then it is compromised.
How extensive are the honeycombs, or are they just in small areas? We don't have a good wide angle full shot of the column.
Keep a few things in mind. This was a typical problem way back when in the early days of concrete. They did not vibrate and voids where common but the structures still survived for many years. The other negative is they provide a pathway for water to get into the column and potentially cause cracking and deterioration. Ideally you want a good smooth well formed surface to act as a water barrier. The honeycombs provide crannies for water collection and potential freezing damage.
What is the purpose of the column and what load does it support? Does it have to be inspected and approved? We really can't even tell much about the column, its dimensions, height, etc from the pixs. What is that reddish appearing stuff seen in a few of the pixs?
Most home foundations that I have seen poured lately they do not vibrate either but use a 2 x 4 to poke down in to get the voids out. Not an easy job, need a big dude that likes it rough. You do see some honeycombs on those type jobs but not as bad as yours appears to be. Hunk of bamboo just apparently doesn't have the face area to move much concrete around. Very poor choice of a tool to compact the concrete.
There are some tests that can be run to attempt to determine the extent of the problem. Most involve using sound in some fashion. Usually you can get a pretty good idea just by hitting the column with a decent sized hammer.
I would see what the inspector said if there is one. The pixs are so small, more like thumbnails that it is difficult to make any judgements at this time.
Post much larger pixs, show a couple shots of the entire column from a few different angles, then show close ups of the worse areas. Is most of the damage in corner areas of the forms, few pixs suggest the boys didn't poke in the corners much. If that is the case it would tend to be more cosmetic type damage. From the wee pixs can't determine much.
Think I would get me some new boys for the next job. Or in today's World you might have to get them government paid retraining, plus counselling.
Get a bigger pole and eat more Wheaties.
1. No pathway has been seen for water to get through the column as none of them are no more than 2-3 inches deep.
2. What is the purpose of the column and what load does it support?---- We will built a roof over these columns and its the 4th floor of the proposed building. I am not sure about the load, but its a family type apartment building, size is around 1500 sq feet. Each column is 8-9 feet long and width 10 inches in each side.
3. What is that reddish appearing stuff seen in a few of the pixs?-- those are birck mortars, we used small bricks instead of Stones.
We will use vibrator in the remaining 8 columns.
I will post more pics of the site.
Could these honeycombs be the reason for the cement paste rolled out from the lower end of the form ( made by wood) while casting?
Thanks for all your contribution to this thread.
Last edited by jnathan; 05-05-2008 at 01:37 PM..
Reason: adding more info
1. No pathway has been seen for water to get through the column as none of them are no more than 2-3 inches deep.
2. What is the purpose of the column and what load does it support?---- We will built a roof over these columns and its the 4th floor of the proposed building. I am not sure about the load, but its a family type apartment building, size is around 1500 sq feet. Each column is 8-9 feet long and width 10 inches in each side.
3. What is that reddish appearing stuff seen in a few of the pixs?-- those are birck mortars, we used small bricks instead of Stones.
We will use vibrator in the remaining 8 columns.
I will post more pics of the site.
Could these honeycombs be the reason for the cement paste rolled out from the lower end of the form ( made by wood) while casting?
Thanks for all your contribution to this thread.
Ok, that tells me a lot more.
Just for wild arsed chuckles is this project out of the USA and maybe in the Far East somewhere. I've seen plenty of this sort of thing in places like Korea. Pretty common practice in a lot of places in the World.
I'm not a structural engineer but have seen lots of masonary up close and personal. Was the engineering representative on a bunch of industrial type jobs for the field start up phase (after we had did the design in the office) and on occasion would have to work on structural type problems. Know enough to gather the data, describe the problem, get the answer from the home office, understand the general principles, techniques, etc involved.
I don't think any structural engineer would touch that type of construction with a ten foot pole in a modern sense. But having said that, this is basically what we would call ruble construction techniques. Not that it can't work. The Romans did it all over their World and the stuff lasted for centuries. Lots of their buildings / major projects were laid up ruble with a fancy fine coat of motar over it.
In this case, I am wondering is this a common practice in your location and how does your results compare to the typical result?
Maybe it comes down to how well did things get bonded in the column? What was the pour? Some type of mortar or some type of a concrete mix? If it is what I think it is, might just do the typical plaster job and call it square.
That type construction is more an art form than an engineering practice. Seems to me the mix of materials was not right and maybe too stiff, not workable enough or maybe not enough soup versus bricks. Somehow it did not flow as intended.
Not a thing to pass judgement on too some degree. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. I might try to do the placement more like the Romans did or how the old time farmers built ruble foundations. Some it can be extremely strong and durable. More a slip form affair than trying to pour it like a typical concrete pour.
The major flaw I see in there is trying to do some sort of laid up brickware and then embed it in a pour type column. Too many built in sheer points, seams and the like. In ruble type construction it is more a laid up product with close attention to compaction / fill at all points. In general you want the principles in play of building a good stone wall. The actual pouring of a soup to embed all the parts probably doesn't add a lot to the finished product in terms of strength, survivability, etc if it is a partial laid up column in advance to the forms being set.
I might whack it a couple of times with a good heavy sledge and see how it acts. Might demo this first attempt and get better techniques for the follow on columns.
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Do you have problems in River City or what????
