New Construction vs. Older Homes (subfloor, engineered, vinyl, foundation)

[CJ-FROM-NJ]

I need to hear all your thoughts on the new vs. old construction. Pro vs. cons in all aspects.

For example: Here in NJ there is a mandatory fee that is included when buying new homes. I don't know if fee is the right term. Put it this way, on new construction they tell you you must put x amount down in good faith to purchase, if the deal falls through the builders/developers keep the money. Is this true in NC?

[NCHomeFinder]

Originally Posted by CJ-FROM-NJ

I need to hear all your thoughts on the new vs. old construction. Pro vs. cons in all aspects.

For example: Here in NJ there is a mandatory fee that is included when buying new homes. I don't know if fee is the right term. Put it this way, on new construction they tell you you must put x amount down in good faith to purchase, if the deal falls through the builders/developers keep the money. Is this true in NC?

Here, in general (it varies by builder), you'll put in a refundable lot reservation fee, usually for about 30 days to work out all the details and pricing on the home. Then, yes, when you go under contract, the builder expects a non-refundable deposit, the percentage of the price depends on the builder, to break ground.

This is only true on a presale, though. If you buy a spec home, or even an inventory home that is still in the foundation stages, while you may not be able to change the layout, you can still choose all of your finishes, as well as make upgrades to flooring, HVAC, water heater, and other systems. You can usually get away with a much smaller deposit in these cases.

Also, keep in mind that depending on the types of upgrades you want in the home, you may have to pay cash for those up front as well, especially if you put in a change order after the original contract was set up. Example: When we built our house, we chose a spec house that was still in foundation. We were able to have a gas line installed for the range, since I didn't want electric, we chose all our finishes, upgraded the flooring, etc. However, when I asked to upgrade the HVAC, the builder wanted the difference in cash, since it was a cost that he wouldn't recoup if we walked away.

[RaleighRob]

I'm kinda partial to older homes. Most everyone I know with a newer house (say, less than a decade old), it's usually inferior materials and craftmanship, from what I've seen.

[Grass Is Greener]

Originally Posted by RaleighRob

I'm kinda partial to older homes. Most everyone I know with a newer house (say, less than a decade old), it's usually inferior materials and craftmanship, from what I've seen.

It really depends on the builder. My (new) home is really well built and every one who visits me is very impressed with the craftsmanship and overall quality of the house.

[CJ-FROM-NJ]

Originally Posted by Grass Is Greener

It really depends on the builder. My (new) home is really well built and every one who visits me is very impressed with the craftsmanship and overall quality of the house.

Can you please tell me who was your builder?

[ducter]

Originally Posted by RaleighRob

I'm kinda partial to older homes. Most everyone I know with a newer house (say, less than a decade old), it's usually inferior materials and craftmanship, from what I've seen.

I agree TOTALLY with the above statement. If you know a little about contrcution, you know that todays new homes will never last as long as an older one because of the cheaper material and even cheaper unskilled labor.

My builder didnt require a non refundable deposit at all, it was a refundable good faith one but I had to pay in advance for all upgrades and they were not refundable.

[bta]

Originally Posted by ducter

I agree TOTALLY with the above statement. If you know a little about contrcution, you know that todays new homes will never last as long as an older one because of the cheaper material and even cheaper unskilled labor.

First - let me state my bias upfront. I just bought a house in Cary that is new construction.

Next, let me say that I've previously lived in older homes. Older homes that I've absolutely loved. But I still think the argument over new verses old is borderline ridiculous. It really comes down to research and preference.

I believe the statement that older homes are built better than newer homes is misleading and unfortunate when given in absolute terms to new buyers. Simply put - it all depends on the builder. I've been through plenty of shoddy older homes and plenty of shoddy new homes.

To be clear, some of the statements about inferior materials are correct. Especially with wood. It's a fact that new wood is weaker than older wood. Timber companies, through years of selection, are able to plant and harvest trees that grow incredibly fast. Because they grow so fast, the circles in new wood are spaced farther apart when compared with wood that took longer to grow. So old wood is typically much denser than new wood making the new wood weaker.

However, builders aren't stupid. There have been many advancements in building technique that have allowed builders to take the weaker pieces of wood and make stronger walls and floors. There have also been advancements in engineered wood products that can create an engineered wood joist (that looks like an i-beam) and make it stronger than an old solid piece of wood. Science and engineering are amazing things and they have enabled builders to build smarter. So before you take something at face value "new wood is weaker" do some research and see if there is more to it.

Finally preference plays an enormous part in the decision to buy new verse old. Both have their pros and cons. Below are some generalizations but I think they often hold true. I'm just using these as examples - some will be valid for some homes - others will not. The larger point is - there are pros and cons - not are my pros and cons correct in all instances.

Pros - Older Homes
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Larger lots
Mature landscaping
Established Neighborhoods
Less cookie cutter feel
A home that has some history
Often nicer materials (better wood flooring, tile instead of vinyl)
In many cases - a very solid feel.

Pros - New Homes
------------------------
Latest amenities
Energy Star Options (low-e windows, better insulation, sealed crawl spaces)
Newest appliances with appropriate space for them
Large garages
Larger rooms
Higher Ceilings
Walk in closets
Newer floor plans

Cons - Older Homes
------------------------
Lead paint
Asbestos
Old plumbing
Old wiring
Old windows (although sometimes a plus)
Room sizes not always in line with today's living styles
Dated styling
Old HVAC systems
Does anyone watch "This Old House" - big repairs do come up

Cons - New Homes
------------------------
No feel of history
Smaller lots
Less mature trees
Living in a construction zone
Cookie cutter feel
Cheaper materials (vinyl, pergo, cheap windows, etc)
New "space-age" materials sometimes turn out to be a bust (Masonite, Synthetic-Stucco)

I think when you compare the pros and cons - the decision between old verses new won't be as daunting. Either one you decide on - do your research. If it's a new home, investigate the builder and what materials/building techniques he's using. If it's old, get a good home inspector and possibly a structural engineer (depending on how old). Neither a new home nor an old home is a guaranteed "safe bet". Don't let anyone tell you different. Finding a home is a lot of work... but it's also a lot of fun. Best of luck.

[CJ-FROM-NJ]

BTA

Thank you for the time you spent on the reply. I did not know about the old vs. new wood, makes some sense (I guess) when you think about it. If I only had your list to go by in making a decision, I would think that a new home is my choice. But thank you for your lengthy post. I will do my homework of course, I was just looking for everyone's opinion. thanks.

[RaleighRob]

Originally Posted by bta

Cons - Older Homes
------------------------
Lead paint
Asbestos
Old plumbing
Old wiring
Old windows (although sometimes a plus)
Room sizes not always in line with today's living styles
Dated styling
Old HVAC systems
Does anyone watch "This Old House" - big repairs do come up

Alot of this will vary greatly by house....many of it may have been corrected/replaced by previous owners. If the house has had any recent renovations, lead paint, asbestos, and old wiring are most likely the things they fixed first. My place is 67 years old, but most of these issues have been updated before I got there. It's something you'd have to look over carefully to see what's been done.

And "dated styling" may be a good thing depending on what decade. (Ie, classy 1920s vs tacky 1970s. LOL)

I'll also add a pro for older homes: walls almost always made from plaster, not drywall!

[ducter]

I agree mostly with bta but would like to add the following:

Be aware that some "wood" prodcuts are nothing like standard wood or plywood. OSB, Advantach osb, mdf along with others do not stand up to water anywhere near towhat standard plywood and lumber do.

I joists have one drawback that steers me clear of them:
The inside webbing is made of osb. I had bought a house years ago where there was a leak from a bathroom for a while and the subfloor and joists held up fine. They were plywood and 2*10 or 12. I dont think that you can put the test of time against these materials (and others) because simply they havent had the time like a 70's houses has.

Also these new products are mostly being installed by unsklled labor who dont follow simple manufactors directions (gaps, spacing ect.).

When I go to a new house the first thing I look at is quality which is comprised of labor and material, not just one. Many things should be upgraded and are not because the public as a majority is uneducated about materials that are not typically seen and builders try to save money as much as possible.

Gee I remember when houses under construction were covered by blue tarps, even with osb materials they refust to....