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Old 12-05-2008, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,447 posts, read 49,519,416 times
Reputation: 10614

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Quote:
Originally Posted by southgeorgia View Post
The finish looked like it was coated in plastic; i don't know how to explain it any more clearly. I did say though you might could order a nicer finish. It looked like some type of plastic molded veneer.



Why would you want to go back to the store and order another one when you can call the cabinet maker to come make the changes? My comment stems from work in custom houses where the customers are notorious to making small changes; whether it be with the trim or a type of hinge, etc. . . You never know.

Because the fixtures often span more than one cabinet box, and must be lowered to span those recessed. This is not a problem with custom built cabinets. And that cabinet molding looks horrible in my opinion.



stub-outs go @ 57" on concrete and 58" if tile over plywood subfloor. Again, that molding looks like DOO DOO.



That's too bad.


I understand you have a product to sell and i'm not knocking you for defending it, its just not my preference. Hope you understand.

Hey no sweat about the UCM. You dont like it. I wonder if you had a scrap sample of the various UCMs offered and held them up for the customer if you might be able to sell more. To see in real life sells. People want to touch it and feel it. To show a picture of it from a catalog dont do it. I have a 12" peice of every molding in the catalog. I can hold these peices up on their old cabinets and they either like it or dont. Maybe your part of the world UCM is not in style. Up in the north central parts of this country you cant give away crown molding. No one wants it. Strange huh?

If your stubbing out at 57 are you bringing the wire though the inside of the cabinet box? If you are hanging uppers at 57 then you can not make code. There is no code stating where uppers are to be hung but there is a code that says 18" from the top of the counter top to the bottom of the uppers. And with a standard 36" base (34.5 base + 1.5 CT) then at 57 you would have a 21 CT space.

So if you are bringing in the stub inside the cabinet why do you need to notch the bottoms? Mabe you are poking the wire down through the floor of the cabinet and then running it box to box?

Im well aware of the little changes people want even after your finished. The old famous "While your already here with your tools out, can you just.........". I dont get that since I use stock cabinets. What is on the showroom wall is what you get. People dont expect anything more or different. They are the only colors offered, only door styles and only wood species offered. I would imagine doing custom one might get that kinda often.

My biggest problem is 2 or 3 or more years after I put in a kitchen I get called back to add on. Maybe just add an island or one extra wall cabinet. Their old ones have aged and now Im bringing in a nice brand new shinny one. Same everything but their wood has aged. I explain that all wood ages and changes color. But the good news is their old will not continue to age anymore. It stops at some point after a couple years. So the new box I add will darken and catch up with their existing old cabinets. In due time it will all be the same.

Got customers.....gotta go.

 
Old 12-05-2008, 06:43 PM
 
Location: sowf jawja
1,941 posts, read 9,215,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Hey no sweat about the UCM. You dont like it. I wonder if you had a scrap sample of the various UCMs offered and held them up for the customer if you might be able to sell more. To see in real life sells. People want to touch it and feel it. To show a picture of it from a catalog dont do it. I have a 12" peice of every molding in the catalog. I can hold these peices up on their old cabinets and they either like it or dont. Maybe your part of the world UCM is not in style. Up in the north central parts of this country you cant give away crown molding. No one wants it. Strange huh?
I don't sell cabinets so I don't have any samples. I've never seen any I like; its not the finish, I just personally don't like the way it looks. Its completely possible there's a much nicer molding available, I just haven't seen it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
If your stubbing out at 57 are you bringing the wire though the inside of the cabinet box? If you are hanging uppers at 57 then you can not make code. There is no code stating where uppers are to be hung but there is a code that says 18" from the top of the counter top to the bottom of the uppers. And with a standard 36" base (34.5 base + 1.5 CT) then at 57 you would have a 21 CT space.
That code must be local to you; we're on the 2006 IRC and there is no such code regarding cabinet height that I know of. Can you cite a code number?

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
So if you are bringing in the stub inside the cabinet why do you need to notch the bottoms? Mabe you are poking the wire down through the floor of the cabinet and then running it box to box?
No, stubs come out directly underneath the cabinet into the recess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Im well aware of the little changes people want even after your finished. The old famous "While your already here with your tools out, can you just.........". I dont get that since I use stock cabinets. What is on the showroom wall is what you get. People dont expect anything more or different. They are the only colors offered, only door styles and only wood species offered. I would imagine doing custom one might get that kinda often.
I don't get to say "we can't do that" very often. Even if I think the answer might be no, its always "yes we can."
 
Old 12-06-2008, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,447 posts, read 49,519,416 times
Reputation: 10614
Quote:
Originally Posted by southgeorgia View Post
I don't sell cabinets so I don't have any samples. I've never seen any I like; its not the finish, I just personally don't like the way it looks. Its completely possible there's a much nicer molding available, I just haven't seen it yet.



That code must be local to you; we're on the 2006 IRC and there is no such code regarding cabinet height that I know of. Can you cite a code number?



No, stubs come out directly underneath the cabinet into the recess.




I don't get to say "we can't do that" very often. Even if I think the answer might be no, its always "yes we can."

Keep up the good attitude on the "yes we can" answers.

I just checked my Kraftmaid catalog and they have 5 under cabinet moldings. My Merillat has just 3. Something for everyone.

My curiosity is your 57 height. With that you are taking away unnecessary reach for the customer. Short people can just about get to the second shelf at normal 54 height. I wonder if they can get their wrist over the second shelfs edge if it is that high.

I have no code books to answer your question on code. Like I said, Im not sure the code specifies height but I know there is a code that insists 18" between the countertop and the bottom of the upper. I do see some leeway by the inspectors due to variations in countertop thickness. Maybe an inch they let you by with.

In the beginning of the catalog there is a diagram showing the ergonomics which are generally accepted by ASID and it shows uppers to be hung at 54.

Asside from all codes, there is a logic to hanging the uppers at 54.

You have a 36 base, 18" space, and a 42 upper (all standard sizes which do not vary). This equalls 96" which is the standard height of 80% of all homes in America. If crown molding in this example was used you would have to drop your uppers to maybe 53 or 52.5 which is cutting things real close.

In this senario you have no choice to hang the uppers at 54. Of course you have 30" or 36" uppers that would work or you can even have 9' or 10' ceilings at which case it wouldnt matter.

This is weird but appreciate your discussion.
 
Old 12-06-2008, 10:57 PM
 
Location: sowf jawja
1,941 posts, read 9,215,103 times
Reputation: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Keep up the good attitude on the "yes we can" answers.

I just checked my Kraftmaid catalog and they have 5 under cabinet moldings. My Merillat has just 3. Something for everyone.

My curiosity is your 57 height. With that you are taking away unnecessary reach for the customer. Short people can just about get to the second shelf at normal 54 height. I wonder if they can get their wrist over the second shelfs edge if it is that high.

I have no code books to answer your question on code. Like I said, Im not sure the code specifies height but I know there is a code that insists 18" between the countertop and the bottom of the upper. I do see some leeway by the inspectors due to variations in countertop thickness. Maybe an inch they let you by with.

In the beginning of the catalog there is a diagram showing the ergonomics which are generally accepted by ASID and it shows uppers to be hung at 54.

Asside from all codes, there is a logic to hanging the uppers at 54.

You have a 36 base, 18" space, and a 42 upper (all standard sizes which do not vary). This equalls 96" which is the standard height of 80% of all homes in America. If crown molding in this example was used you would have to drop your uppers to maybe 53 or 52.5 which is cutting things real close.

In this senario you have no choice to hang the uppers at 54. Of course you have 30" or 36" uppers that would work or you can even have 9' or 10' ceilings at which case it wouldnt matter.

This is weird but appreciate your discussion.

i don't choose the upper height. every cabinet maker i've ever worked with hangs them @ 57". i don't know why; i just stub-out @ their height mark. maybe i'll ask next time.
 
Old 12-06-2008, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Nothing could be finer... I'm in S. Carolina!!
1,294 posts, read 6,472,333 times
Reputation: 421
i think these are expensive, but really pretty: Christopher Peacock Cabinetry
 
Old 12-09-2008, 04:45 AM
 
8 posts, read 319,155 times
Reputation: 24
Default Re: What are some brands of good kitchen cabinet?

I'm a confused. when you say "cabinet decorations" do you mean the fancy molding and appliques. you can buy and apply to the cabinets?
 
Old 12-09-2008, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,447 posts, read 49,519,416 times
Reputation: 10614
Quote:
Originally Posted by southgeorgia View Post
i don't choose the upper height. every cabinet maker i've ever worked with hangs them @ 57". i don't know why; i just stub-out @ their height mark. maybe i'll ask next time.
Just a thought for you though. Why would you wait 5 to 10 weeks for your custom cabinet orders if you can purchase factory semi custom for less money and you can have them delivered to your door in as little as 5 days?

I rarely see the draw of fully custom (smalll shop building from scratch) when a quality factory made box can be produced virtually flawless time after time for less money and much much quicker delivery.

I find this yet another localized preference like the crown and UCM issue. Where I just moved from you could not find a custom cabinet shop that could survive. Where I am now all the Builders use small local custom cabinet shops. Makes no sense to me but Im here now to change the way people think...
 
Old 12-09-2008, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,447 posts, read 49,519,416 times
Reputation: 10614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deidras View Post
I'm a confused. when you say "cabinet decorations" do you mean the fancy molding and appliques. you can buy and apply to the cabinets?
Im not sure what you are referring to Deidras but I'll try. Yes moldings and appliques are extras and add ons. And in most cases with all cabinet brands, they can be pretty expensive. I always get asked why my prefinished 4X8' sheet of 1/4" plywood cost them $90 yet they can buy that same sheet of unfinished oak in Lowes for $19.00. In Lowes you are buying at best a #1 grade plywood with one good sanded side. You have 3 grades of wood. #1,2 and 3. 3 being knotty, warped and many blemishes. #1 grade has one blemish free sanded side ready to stain and finish. Then you have furniture grade stock which will be above blemish free and is what is used in fine cabinetry.

A basic kitchen is the upper and lower cabinets. Also included are the toe skin cover and scribe molding for the ends that die at a wall. From there are add ons like crown molding with rope or dentil inserts, under cabinet molding flutted colums, and some other goodies. All used to dress up a basic kitchen. These items in total could often add up to about 15% of the cost of all the cabinets.

Hope that helps...
 
Old 12-09-2008, 06:18 PM
 
Location: sowf jawja
1,941 posts, read 9,215,103 times
Reputation: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Just a thought for you though. Why would you wait 5 to 10 weeks for your custom cabinet orders if you can purchase factory semi custom for less money and you can have them delivered to your door in as little as 5 days?
as long as you place your order ahead of time, there is no problem.

in my area, custom cabinets can be had for the same or less than factory built cabinets. they can also be purchased for 100x the cost of factory built cabinets.

taking that into consideration, i would rather support the local cabinet maker than a factory somewhere else. in my town we have 3 places to purchase factory cabinets; HD, lowe's, and a local reseller.

i know of at least 20 custom shops and i'm sure there are more i don't know.

every area is different; mine just happens to be one that uses custom built cabinets. i'm sure if there were a major price difference we'd see more pre-fab factory built cabinets; you have to remember that south georgia is a very inexpensive place to live, and our goods and services are less costly than other areas of the country.

one other consideration is that we don't have national builders here, or builders that are putting up a house every week. the average builder constructs approx. 12-15 houses a year. we have enough local guys to meet the demand.
 
Old 12-09-2008, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,447 posts, read 49,519,416 times
Reputation: 10614
Quote:
Originally Posted by southgeorgia View Post
as long as you place your order ahead of time, there is no problem.

in my area, custom cabinets can be had for the same or less than factory built cabinets. they can also be purchased for 100x the cost of factory built cabinets.

taking that into consideration, i would rather support the local cabinet maker than a factory somewhere else. in my town we have 3 places to purchase factory cabinets; HD, lowe's, and a local reseller.

i know of at least 20 custom shops and i'm sure there are more i don't know.

every area is different; mine just happens to be one that uses custom built cabinets. i'm sure if there were a major price difference we'd see more pre-fab factory built cabinets; you have to remember that south georgia is a very inexpensive place to live, and our goods and services are less costly than other areas of the country.

one other consideration is that we don't have national builders here, or builders that are putting up a house every week. the average builder constructs approx. 12-15 houses a year. we have enough local guys to meet the demand.
Supporting the local cabinet companies. Well I will never fault you on that. Good for you.

I looked you up and my brand is near you. One in Hahira and from there the locations do stretch out pretty far from you. Must be a rural area.
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