U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > House
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-13-2009, 12:02 PM
 
3,020 posts, read 24,473,193 times
Reputation: 2778

Advertisements

To answer your first question, Yes I have done work on my own NG line. It is steel, in my case 1-1/2". It is legal for me to do anything I desire after the gas meter within limits and within the rules. We shall develop how that works.

First you must understand what has been provided by the gas company in terms of service. What does your meter, inlet service lines look like? Also your regulator and what is the system pressure designed for the house usage. All that will make a difference.

Assuming you have the equipment and skills to cut and thread steel pipe it is not much of a challenge from the actual working activities point of view. But what you are asking for is essentially a new construction type of re-running the entire house system. So that sezs you can not just go around cutting pipe and sticking it together. I could not do it in my house and essentially I am completely unregulated, no permits required. My regulating authority is the gas company.

For messing with the meter, even the outlet connection side of it, at a minimum the gas company must be notified. If you do not, then it can be viewed as a form of tampering. Say your gas meter outlet connection is bushed down in size, you remove it and increase the pipe size to the house, must tell at least the gas company. A meter reader will probably report any noticed changes around the meter.

Then if the entire piping system within the house is changed, not only is each connection leak checked but they also will require what is known as a pressure drop test where a gizmo is hooked up and measures the pressure for a time period. How you get it done will vary with the area, in my case the gas company would do it.

The other biggy somebody will check for is all the shutoff and isolation valves in the system are rated for use in a gas service.

You can start with something like this to compute a piping size.

Natural Gas Pipe Size Calculator

But with all this you also must understand what pressure the gas company thought the house was designed for. It can vary depending on age, location, etc, the higher the pressure, the smaller the pipe can be.

Guide To Understanding Elevated Pressure (http://www.socalgas.com/construction/elevatedPressure/ - broken link)

If you are in a very anal regulated location, I can tell you no way will you be allowed to even touch the NG piping, let alone be allowed to completely change it out yourself. Lots of super ways to get yourself in trouble. They might even pull your occupancy certificate and it would be illegal to be living in your own house. To say nothing of all the other fools like inspectors, fire marshals, Lord knows who else will get excited.

Even in my very super unregulated World, this is the one thing I have to be extremely careful with. I can do anything within limits as long as I make the gas company aware, they have a right of inspection.

You are totally crazy to attempt to do it under the table if not permitted. At the very least, the gas company will cut off your service. In my area, that is what happens, the gas company gets a tiny whiff something is the most mere jury rigged, they immediately cut off the gas and lock out, if not remove the meter. Service is not restored until they are satisfied, plus you have to pay a fee for all the hassle. Got to be squeeky honest up front and then it costs nothing.

You can not do what you are suggesting even in the most ideal unregulated situation. My county is about as unregulated as you will find in the country. You must understand the rules and what is involved. In my case if I wanted to increase / change out the system / I would consult with the gas company, probably even get their technical help, plan out the work, not try to avoid their rules.

Last edited by Cosmic; 02-13-2009 at 01:00 PM.. Reason: typos
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-13-2009, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
28,926 posts, read 68,900,807 times
Reputation: 35341
I have done it many times. IMO it is one of the easiest homeimprovment projects that you can do. A couple of pointers.

1. Be absolutely sure that the gas valve is completely off before yu start. Check it twice.

2. Us Black Pipe, not gavlanized. Black pipe is special pipe for gas lines.

3. Use the yellow tape as discussed above. If the piece you are wrapping gets wrinkles, take it off and start over, do nto try to straighten it.

4. Have a spray bottle with soapy water with you. Spray each joint throughly. It will bubble up if it is leaking.

5. Be sure you use the right sized pipe for your appliance. Depending on the length of your run, you may have to increase the size. Try to locate your appliances as close to your meter as you can.

6. When you finish, call the gas company and have them bring out a "sniffer" this is a device that will detect any leaking gas. Be sure to air out the area where you did hte work first. This is usually a free service from the gas company.

7. while you are working on the gas line, make sure that everyone in your houshold knows not to smoke, light anything, etc. Be sure that you turn off any pilot lights anywhere in the area. Just ot be safe, unplug anyhting that has an electric pilot/igniter.

8. Make sure you buy enough different sizes of pipe and some extra elbows. You can return what you do nto use. You do nto want ot go running to the store for an extra piece if something unexpected comes up. I never threaded my own pipe, I just measured carefully, drew out exactly what I was going to do and and bought the right lengths of pipe that I needed. I bought extra pieces a length up or down just to ensure that I would have what I needed. Return the extra pieces and get your money back. I never had any problem.

9. Do not overtighten the pipe. You will crack it. It is hard to overtighten it. I hand tightened the pipe and then added maybe three turns with a pipe wrench. You will feel when it is getting really tight.

10. Remember you have to build your pipe in one direction only. You cannot start at each end and the connect them in the middle unless you buy a universal joint (I am not even sure if you can get those for gas lines). You start fromthe meter and work toward your appliance. Personally, I find the rigid pipe easier to work with than the flex pipe. Codes only allow flex pipe in certain applications anyway.

You will smell gas when you open up the pipes. This does nto mean that the valve is leaking or open. Some gas remains in the line and will come out when you open up the pipe system.

Gas lines are the only things that i have done that are never frustrating. Every job went perfrectly. It is really easy.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-13-2009, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
15,299 posts, read 48,904,002 times
Reputation: 14634
Good advice here, I can only add that my first step would be to be certain you need to go up in size before opening this can of worms, you may not need to. This may depend somewhat on if you intend to use all your gas appliances at once.

Sizing tables for piping, like wiring, usually try to idiot-proof the system to some extent. If you keep idiots away from your system it can work fine even though it's got some undersized elements.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2009, 07:18 AM
 
27,965 posts, read 36,079,073 times
Reputation: 4082
Just like to remind you to make sure you check joints for leaks when done. Soap can be used. If you feel uncomfortable at all or weary get someone to check behind you. Better safe then sorry if you are not sure what you are doing.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2013, 08:12 PM
 
2 posts, read 93,885 times
Reputation: 12
First of all you need to size the gas system. I am not sure if you use the uniform plumbing code if you do go to chapter 12 IAPMO UPC 2009, this will explain how to size gas it's not that difficult but keep in mine, that it can be dangerous if it isn't done correctly and inspected by a professional. I am from California the strictest state in the nation when it comes to codes.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2013, 08:19 PM
 
2 posts, read 93,885 times
Reputation: 12
Thumbs down Sizing Gas

First and most Important thing to do is sizing your gas system not all this DIY stuff it's all fine and dandy if the sytem is sized correctly please know what your talking about when speaking about Gas systems this is nothing to play with must haave a professional test sytem and check sizing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
I have done it many times. IMO it is one of the easiest homeimprovment projects that you can do. A couple of pointers.

1. Be absolutely sure that the gas valve is completely off before yu start. Check it twice.

2. Us Black Pipe, not gavlanized. Black pipe is special pipe for gas lines.

3. Use the yellow tape as discussed above. If the piece you are wrapping gets wrinkles, take it off and start over, do nto try to straighten it.

4. Have a spray bottle with soapy water with you. Spray each joint throughly. It will bubble up if it is leaking.

5. Be sure you use the right sized pipe for your appliance. Depending on the length of your run, you may have to increase the size. Try to locate your appliances as close to your meter as you can.

6. When you finish, call the gas company and have them bring out a "sniffer" this is a device that will detect any leaking gas. Be sure to air out the area where you did hte work first. This is usually a free service from the gas company.

7. while you are working on the gas line, make sure that everyone in your houshold knows not to smoke, light anything, etc. Be sure that you turn off any pilot lights anywhere in the area. Just ot be safe, unplug anyhting that has an electric pilot/igniter.

8. Make sure you buy enough different sizes of pipe and some extra elbows. You can return what you do nto use. You do nto want ot go running to the store for an extra piece if something unexpected comes up. I never threaded my own pipe, I just measured carefully, drew out exactly what I was going to do and and bought the right lengths of pipe that I needed. I bought extra pieces a length up or down just to ensure that I would have what I needed. Return the extra pieces and get your money back. I never had any problem.

9. Do not overtighten the pipe. You will crack it. It is hard to overtighten it. I hand tightened the pipe and then added maybe three turns with a pipe wrench. You will feel when it is getting really tight.

10. Remember you have to build your pipe in one direction only. You cannot start at each end and the connect them in the middle unless you buy a universal joint (I am not even sure if you can get those for gas lines). You start fromthe meter and work toward your appliance. Personally, I find the rigid pipe easier to work with than the flex pipe. Codes only allow flex pipe in certain applications anyway.

You will smell gas when you open up the pipes. This does nto mean that the valve is leaking or open. Some gas remains in the line and will come out when you open up the pipe system.

Gas lines are the only things that i have done that are never frustrating. Every job went perfrectly. It is really easy.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-28-2013, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
14,620 posts, read 55,079,398 times
Reputation: 17714
Turning pipe; easy.
Cutting/Threading pipe; the right tool makes it relatively easy.
Routing pipe; not so easy.
Calculating the size (for the run, flow, and appliance); well, lets just say there's a lot of math involved!

Natural gas pipe diameter, flow rate and pressure drop calculator

Bon appetite!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2013, 06:26 AM
 
1,256 posts, read 3,833,587 times
Reputation: 782
We bought a gas stove to replace an electric one "shortly" after moving in (25-ish years ago - Northern Virginia). We already had gas service for furnace and water heater but needed it for the stove which was a floor and about 10 feet "horizontally" away from the furnace/heater.

Since I know just about nothing about gas lines et al, I used a gas-fitting-licensed plumber to route gas to the stove; that guy obviously had been doing this type of work for decades so the rest of this post describes what I assume was honestly needed and installed; except for nodding and saying "Uh...okay" I was pretty much totally out of the loop w.r.t. the design of the installation.

Rather than simply hooking something up to the existing iron piping already at the furnace/water heater location in the basement, using gray-painted iron pipe/joints the plumber installed a new =additional= gas flow regulator and wrench-based cutoff valve =outside= at the main outside gas meter. He then used 5/8" copper tubing (yellow painted with regular "Natural Gas Line - 2PSIG" markings on it) from there paralleling the existing iron piping, through the outside wall, about 30-ish feet to a location in the basement near the furnace/water heater where he installed a cutoff valve attached to one side of ANOTHER (smaller) flow regulator, that regulator attached to a 4-position manifold (only one position used for the stove). The manifold was installed (per the plumber's words) "in case you or a future owner might want to, for example, convert your fireplace to gas". At the position on the manifold used for the stove he installed another cutoff valve and routed 1/2" copper tubing (same description otherwise) from there to the stove's location and up through the floor to the stove. At the floor location in the kitchen he installed another cutoff valve and appropriate stuff for a flexible connection finally to the stove.

When I think about this installation the only question I have is why there was a second flow regulator installed just BEFORE the manifold - I understand all the cutoff valves AND regulating the flow BEFORE the new line enters the house, but don't know why (nor have I tried to look into it, BTW) the inside regulator was placed before the manifold rather than, say, just after the manifold as the smaller line headed to only the stove - since the stove IS the only additional appliance still, this is pretty much moot but I'm still (a little) curious about it.

In any case, and in hindsight, there is NO WAY I would have gotten all this "correct" (e.g., the unmentioned apparent moisture traps, the idea of planning for future expansion, etc). Since I haven't worried about the installation over the decades, having an experienced professional do this certainly appears to have been worth it to me.

Last edited by sullyguy; 09-29-2013 at 06:41 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 12:35 PM
 
2 posts, read 86,570 times
Reputation: 11
Your distance from your gas meter is key to the installation. The farther away you are the larger the size of pipe you start with and decrease after a certain distance. Instantaneous water heaters require an extremely large amount of BTU's. Easily in the range of 200,000 Btu's for a three bathroom house. If it is 10 feet from the meter the smallest size you should use is 1 inch.
If your 60 feet away,then you should use 1 1/4 inch pipe. That is not including the tee's that will be needed for other appliances. That is why you have to sketch it out by distance and BTU input to meter. There are many web sites that give you the chart for amount of BTU's per size and distance of pipe,including the various different types of pipe you choose to use. Also personally I would not use tape for a gas joint. Either pipe dope or there are a few different liquid pipe joint sealers specifically for gas. This is a job where being OCD comes in very handy !!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 12:40 PM
 
2 posts, read 86,570 times
Reputation: 11
Default Piping support

Always support your gas piping properly. In my state the code is every six feet on steel pipe. On flexible gas pipe there are specific manufacturer requirements for support.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > House
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top