Vinyl Siding Versus Hardy Plank (roofing, glass, price, compare)

[texdav]

Hardie plank is a good product if applied right and well painted. Vinyl become briddle with age and frankly I think it loks terriable after awhile when it starts to move alot with heat and cold. I would worry about the lawsuits because the installers who did use mask when cutting are pretty stupid and probably didn't install it correctly. Look at hardies site for the run down on how ti sholud be installed to judge contractors when you ask them how they will install.Also make sure they use a mositure barrier done right and you have no problem.

[harborlady]

Fiber cement based products have longevity and lower maintenence, but cost more upfront. I am a little disappointed by the measley R value of fiber cement products.

hardie planks warranty is based on certified installers who've been trained by hardie. without using the proper contractor for the job, the warranty is voided.

Likely this is industry standard. Read through fine print of certaineed pdf and you'll probablly find the same stipulation. Fiber cement Siding Warranty WeatherBoards
These are more complex installs than the forgiving vinyl, so yes, expect to pay more for quality product and quality labor. It's still worth it if you're in it for the long haul.

vinyl isn't horrid, it just doesn't look right on older architecture. The lower mils, the more flex, the less durable. Power wash them like crazy if you're in a high pollen area, sticks to it like glue and everything shows. The color fades unevenly on the cheaper stuff. I've seen some horrible jobs done by unlicensed dudes- how can that be worth what they paid for the whole job? One house I helped out on, she had bugs nesting in the vinyl gaps. Wasps, spiders, whatnot.

[silverfox]

I have had several discusions with the right people at Hardie and you only get the proper info if you ask the right questions. They do not always offer up what you really need to know.

Example: Asked how many of the installers out there are Certified installers by Hardie?

Answer: Approx. 10%

Question: Aren't you concered about the 90% that are not Certified putting up your product on customer homes?

Answer: Yes ... but we cannot control those that put it on. We put the current (at the time of production) installation instructions with each bundle of material, and then it's up to the installer to put it on right. OH MY!!!!!

Where does this leave the Home Owner??

Your on your own...that's where.

The only person that knows if the installation is right is the installer or contractor if he is carefully watching the process....maybe a 5% fat chance factor.

Either siding you use ...Remember water is your enemy. Don't let it get in.

I have found that over a period of time Hardie has changed their installation instructions
Does that mean that the earlier installs were all wrong? Seems they really don't know the proper method and are letting time dictate what the rules will be.
On current job sites I have visited I find only one out of 10 come close to properly installing.

Issues are primarily,

1. Proper storage of materials before and during install. ie: Left out in the rain uncovered.

2. Improper nailing with airguns overdriving nails or nailing crooked or in the wrong locations.

3. Improper nails.

4. Improper butt joints. (Specified Clearances)

5. Improper types of caulk and poor application. Installers that haven't a clue how or where to properly caulk.

6. No concern of proper/improper water barrier application.

7. Improper cutting blades or methods creating unsquare and ragged joints.

Most of these issues are caused buy lack of proper training, and workers that don't really care and are in a Big Hurry to finish the job and move on. Generally no self respect and no desire to get any.

Really GOOD Contractors are hard to find, and what I see much of the time is that even the good ones do not have a 100% track record.
Many have a ratio of Approx. 75% good subs ... 25% poor subs ...give or take...

No wonder we are having so many problems with Mold etc.

On the other hand maybe it's just me.....Maybe I have too high of standards for the WHAM BAM times we are in. As it is in Nature.....be Smart or be Eaten. Your Choice.

Silverfox

[Cosmic]

I've been around houses that it was been installed, from what I see it is no different that all of the cement based products that have been available over the years. My reservations would have been all the trim stuff was not also available in the same product. That may be changing as I see Lowes now carries Hardie products and there does appear to be more trim and such type aux products to make a complete installation similar to vinyl.

All the cement based type products appear to have performed well over the years. Even the ones like the Masonite shingles that were cement fiber. They all held paint very well. I don't like the idea of using tons of caulking to get it well sealed up. The old cement products we depended more on a good layer of 15# roof felt under the products. Just had to be sure it was also under the trim work, usually at the trim a couple of layers was used. Worked well. They probably need to come out with trim that is engineered similar to vinyl, you never want to leave things up to the installers and require them to be very creative. Whatever the parts, underlayment, etc that is required, it should all be available thru the Hardie dealers. Should not have to jury rig or search for all the parts to make a complete foolproof job.

Plus all that stuff about the dust is no different than the old dazes. There are all sorts of stuff you don't want to breathe around construction sites. Was never rocket science, there is a very good disposable mask used in the auto body trades for like 6 or 7 bucks that would protect you. Always have a couple of those in the tool box.

So I think it is probably a very good product and would consider using it on a new house. The stuff I really like was a solid vinyl fiber planking that you could install like lap siding. Found some to side a shed and it was the cat's mittens. I got it surplus and it came in 16 foot lenghts. Probably expensive, never seen it commonly available before. That also could be painted or stained if you wanted.

[teatime]

Just curious -- could you have hardi-plank installed over (on top of) hardi-board?

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by teatime

Just curious -- could you have hardi-plank installed over (on top of) hardi-board?

"Could you"? Sure, I guess you could, but I don't think I would......

[silverfox]

Originally Posted by teatime

Just curious -- could you have hardi-plank installed over (on top of) hardi-board?

Yes you can install it over any sound solid flat base material, but you do need to follow my recomendations about water barriers and be sure to caulk all the openings carefully.
Check to see what your stud spacing is ie. 16" ...24" on center. It should be fastened directly to studs where possible. Be sure to use hot dip galvanized nails or stainless steel nails. Look on Hardies site for specs.

Hardie is working on their own vapor barrier material now and it should be available before too long. In the mean time I would use the Tyvek "Drain Wrap" only.

Silverfox

[harborlady]

hardie house wrap is available now, and according to the licensed installer it's not optional for moisture control/hygric barrier. I had it included in a recent estimate. They don't recomend installing hardie board over anything previous, nor do they consider felt paper good enough as barrier. My wood clappboard must come down as part of the job for this old house.

[texdav]

Well they have changed their mind since they started making the wrp because they use to say either a wrap or felt. I suspect that they now recommend it for thios reason. Certianly a wrp is easier but I doubt better IMO.The main thong that most contract do nopt do if the houses has underlayment of playwood or shiplap is to make sure to nail into teh studs. Also many times they use cheaper nails;hardie recoomends Maze nails which makes duble dipped hot galvanized nails . One of only two US nail makers. Nails make a great difference now days with so many cheap galvanized out there.Personally I would always prefer a underlaymant of plywood or shiplap on any siding.

[silverfox]

Originally Posted by harborlady

hardie house wrap is available now, and according to the licensed installer it's not optional for moisture control/hygric barrier. I had it included in a recent estimate. They don't recomend installing hardie board over anything previous, nor do they consider felt paper good enough as barrier. My wood clappboard must come down as part of the job for this old house.

Thats strange.....The Hardie Co. Tech dept. was "strongly recommending to me" 15# felt as the best option not very long ago, just before they developed their own product.
That sounds like somebody has found a good way to sell lots of their new housewrap without any recourse. I suppose they require it for their warrantee also???
Did they tell you what the "perm rating" is for the new hardie wrap?
Did they discuss with you the "total envelope and moisture control" inside the house walls? This is critical.
Do you have a "1 mil minimum" water barrier primer under the paint on the outside perimeter walls of your home?
What do you have for wall insulation?
Are you concerned about mold inside of the wall cavity?

I hate to say it but I would question the advice you are getting and if I were you I would call the Hardie Tech dept. and discuss this with them.

I found in talking with installers here, that most of them are full of you know what. If it turns out what he is suggesting is OK then you have lost nothing.

Here where I live 95% of the homes built have an OSB 7/16" sheathing or
1/2" exterior plywood nailed over the studs for structual issues and nailing purposes. That is the reason for the TYVEK Drain Wrap. It allows moisture between the siding and the sheathing to escape to the outside preventing rot.

I think the reason to remove the clapboard could be to eleminate any uneveness for the hardie to go over, Or maybe it's because they will be able to charge you for the labor of removing and disposal.
It's called single walll construction here when no sheathing is applied to the outer wall over the studs. It is only used on low end homes and other buildings here to reduce the overall cost of construction. They allow it if you use 2x6 outerwall studs.

I would be concerned that they want to remove the clapboard and reduce the structural integrity of the building. Hardie siding offers very little in structual qualities. Just hit it hard with a hammer and see what it does. Bump the corners and it will crumble. Pick up a 12ft. board and bounce it up and down and it will snap. Overdrive a nail and see it smash.
A heavy wind or earthquake could possibly wrack the building without lateral support.

It's your house.

Silverfox