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Gosh, there are so many imposed restrictions on American made goods, but our government lets this stuff in?
It's still coming in?
Buy as much American made and boycott Chinese goods.
This isn't fair trade.
EVERYONE READ NEVULOUS POST AND PAY ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And good post cosmic !!!
I realize some items are impossible to buy American like sneakers for example. I end up buying sneakers from some other 3rd world country but never Chinese. Some products are just no longer made in the USA but we can all try whenever possible.
I recently learned of framing studs being sold made in China. Come freaking on people. A 2x4x8 cost $2.49 each. Is it really worth the trouble and cancer risk to your family to buy the Chinese stud for $1.99?
Kids are getting sick on Chinese toys. Families are getting sick on Chinese face towels. Workers and families are gettng sick on Chinese made home improvement materials. Copper wiring is disintegrating inside walls due to the sulfur coming off the Chinese drywall and fires are starting. The list goes on.
When is everyone going to learn a lesson? There is a very high cost to low prices. And sometimes that cost is the ultimate one....death. Yes there are documented cases of people dying from defective and toxic Chinese products.
This has been horse puckey from the get go. I can prove it. There is no Chinese drywall in the USA, never has been, never will be.
First there is no way for it too get here in any type quanity. I did a lil pencil work, consider this.
Drywall is always shipped in open bed flat type trailers. Extremely heavy, bulky, you must delivery in pristine condition, even very slight damage, results in either unsaleable or a deep discount required. Fairly low value product, that truckload sitting delivered on the boom truck to build a new house is worth something in the $500-600 range for the average house. Moving it any distance will result in hefty extra charges. All builders buy wholesale from speciality type suppliers, big builders probably factory direct.
How would it get here from China?
Take the standard shipping container which is like a box truck trailer. They are 8 x 8 x 40' for the big ones. If you tried to jam one of those full with 1/2" drywall it would weigh 51.84 tons. You normally can't even move that over the highway in any country, probably can not get permission to ship, normal weight limit is either 32 or 40 tons, depending in most ports. So in theory (which you can't) if you could load it into a container would be maybe 3/4 full. You weigh out long before you cube out. It is pretty well impossible to load anyway, the dimensions only allow mere fractions of inch along the sides, will get damaged a lot in handling. You are talking maybe 1480 sheets of drywall in the box. Worth ~$8000 total retail and nobody pays retail. Actual value closer to $6000. Don't have a tariff rate for drywall but the shipping costs would completely eat up the value. Typical container not max'd out might cost minimum $4000 for just shipping costs depending on the goods to the West Coast only. The type goods determines the tariff rate, heavy stuff cost more.
It could come by Ro/Ro ship, roll-on/roll-off, where you can load it on a proper trailer bed and ship the entire trailer. The Ro/Ro's are like giant underground parking garages as ships with movable ramps that allow driving freight on / off like a car ferry. Wrong cargo for that service, more expensive than containers in the main. Truck will still be weight limited for the highway parts of the trip. Ship probably can take the weight.
It could come by LASH type ship. No LASH berth service between China / USA.
It could come by old style tramp steamer in break bulk service. Again wrong cargo, too much damage / protection required.
So there is zero practical way to even get it here. You could never make it pay, total loser for the Chinese even if they gave it away free. Does the ship use Land Bridge or does it go thru the Canal? Totally impossible to ship the stuff from China. Once you hit the port of entry, then the economics go completely nuts, if you try to move it inland any distance by truck. For the differential you can go anywhere in the USA / Canada and pay a super premium if there is an extreme shortage in your area and still come out cheaper. End of debate.
Somehow this is a product of somebody's idea to prevent foreclosure or a scheme to make money or there is some type of actual problem but has zero to do with drywall. This is a sucker / snooker type tale.
If you research just a lil bit find extreme twisting of facts. They will claim drywall prices got up to $12 / sheet. Omitting the fact that was for 4 x 8 x 12' sheets which you pay a premium for. Trying to ship those from China would make an impossible situation even worse.
Somebody is pulling somebody's chain. There is no Chinese drywall of any sort in the USA. If you claim there is, explain extremely careful how it got here. Please use only facts and figures, no shrill hysteria.
This has been horse puckey from the get go. I can prove it. There is no Chinese drywall in the USA, never has been, never will be.
First there is no way for it too get here in any type quanity. I did a lil pencil work, consider this.
Drywall is always shipped in open bed flat type trailers. Extremely heavy, bulky, you must delivery in pristine condition, even very slight damage, results in either unsaleable or a deep discount required. Fairly low value product, that truckload sitting delivered on the boom truck to build a new house is worth something in the $500-600 range for the average house. Moving it any distance will result in hefty extra charges. All builders buy wholesale from speciality type suppliers, big builders probably factory direct.
How would it get here from China?
Take the standard shipping container which is like a box truck trailer. They are 8 x 8 x 40' for the big ones. If you tried to jam one of those full with 1/2" drywall it would weigh 51.84 tons. You normally can't even move that over the highway in any country, probably can not get permission to ship, normal weight limit is either 32 or 40 tons, depending in most ports. So in theory (which you can't) if you could load it into a container would be maybe 3/4 full. You weigh out long before you cube out. It is pretty well impossible to load anyway, the dimensions only allow mere fractions of inch along the sides, will get damaged a lot in handling. You are talking maybe 1480 sheets of drywall in the box. Worth ~$8000 total retail and nobody pays retail. Actual value closer to $6000. Don't have a tariff rate for drywall but the shipping costs would completely eat up the value. Typical container not max'd out might cost minimum $4000 for just shipping costs depending on the goods to the West Coast only. The type goods determines the tariff rate, heavy stuff cost more.
It could come by Ro/Ro ship, roll-on/roll-off, where you can load it on a proper trailer bed and ship the entire trailer. The Ro/Ro's are like giant underground parking garages as ships with movable ramps that allow driving freight on / off like a car ferry. Wrong cargo for that service, more expensive than containers in the main. Truck will still be weight limited for the highway parts of the trip. Ship probably can take the weight.
It could come by LASH type ship. No LASH berth service between China / USA.
It could come by old style tramp steamer in break bulk service. Again wrong cargo, too much damage / protection required.
So there is zero practical way to even get it here. You could never make it pay, total loser for the Chinese even if they gave it away free. Does the ship use Land Bridge or does it go thru the Canal? Totally impossible to ship the stuff from China. Once you hit the port of entry, then the economics go completely nuts, if you try to move it inland any distance by truck. For the differential you can go anywhere in the USA / Canada and pay a super premium if there is an extreme storage in your area and still come out cheaper. End of debate.
Somehow this is a product of somebody's idea to prevent foreclosure or a scheme to make money or there is some type of actual problem but has zero to do with drywall. This is a sucker / snooker type tale.
If you research just a lil bit find extreme twisting of facts. They will claim drywall prices got up to $12 / sheet. Omitting the fact that was for 4 x 8 x 12' sheets which you pay a premium for. Trying to ship those from China would make an impossible situation even worse.
Somebody is pulling somebody's chain. There is no Chinese drywall of any sort in the USA. If you claim there is, explain extremely careful how it got here. Please use only facts and figures, no shrill hysteria.
The economics and shipping of it all and how you put it does make sense but we do know there is some of that sulfur infested crap here. How did it get here? Could raw materials have been shipped and local companies produce the final product? That cant be either because the main raw material is gypsum and all the rest is paper.
Back when I lived in Las Vegas we had a very large gypsum plant right outside the city. There was enough of that white stuff to last 10 worlds over in that hole. Why would the USA have shortages as claimed? Shortages lead to price increases and gouging. Like you said, I can not remember a board of drywall ever selling for more then $6 per sheet for a 4x8.
Nope I will not believe it in any quantity. Somebody might have stuck some in a container to fill it out. Even that is crazy but there can be nothing in bulk quantities.
USG sezs they have a 36 year reserve supply on hand at peak production rates for gypsum in the ground. If they need more, they use more dynamite to blow some more out of the ground. Somebody claiming the gypsum is coming in external to the country in bulk raw form is again extremely suspect. Especially from a place like China, too far away. Hell you can ship from any quarry in the USA or from stock piles by rail. If you need extra going to get it up in Canada.
As for these sulfur claims there might be some source but I doubt it is in the drywall. They QC the stuff too heavy. They know and understand the business. It is like any business with all its aspects.
I could buy boom delivery truck drywall in quantity (minimums like 50 sheets) for like $3.42 a sheet (4 x 8'). As the boom went on, the spot prices varied, but it never got to $5. The local home centers selling full retail maybe got to like $6 and change.
There never was any shortages that I knew about. The market would have just worked like it always does and drywall would flow from lower price areas to higher. The shipping costs limit moving that stuff very far with extreme differentials, even within the country.
Like many things, start some rumor and it spreads as the gospel. I still want to see at least a pix of some of this Chinese drywall and an exact house address where it is installed. Remember it also had to arrive in pristine condition. Them installer crews are going to reject loads all banged up. Will not fly at any level somebody wishes to float it. There is no foreign drywall in the USA.
I can prove it. There is no Chinese drywall in the USA, never has been, never will be.
How would it get here from China?
Take the standard shipping container which is like a box truck trailer. They are 8 x 8 x 40' for the big ones. If you tried to jam one of those full with 1/2" drywall it would weigh 51.84 tons. You normally can't even move that over the highway in any country, probably can not get permission to ship, normal weight limit is either 32 or 40 tons, depending in most ports. So in theory (which you can't) if you could load it into a container would be maybe 3/4 full. You weigh out long before you cube out. It is pretty well impossible to load anyway, the dimensions only allow mere fractions of inch along the sides, will get damaged a lot in handling. You are talking maybe 1480 sheets of drywall in the box. Worth ~$8000 total retail and nobody pays retail. Actual value closer to $6000. Don't have a tariff rate for drywall but the shipping costs would completely eat up the value. Typical container not max'd out might cost minimum $4000 for just shipping costs depending on the goods to the West Coast only. The type goods determines the tariff rate, heavy stuff cost more.
So there is zero practical way to even get it here. You could never make it pay, total loser for the Chinese even if they gave it away free. Does the ship use Land Bridge or does it go thru the Canal? Totally impossible to ship the stuff from China. Once you hit the port of entry, then the economics go completely nuts, if you try to move it inland any distance by truck. For the differential you can go anywhere in the USA / Canada and pay a super premium if there is an extreme shortage in your area and still come out cheaper.
Somebody is pulling somebody's chain. There is no Chinese drywall of any sort in the USA. If you claim there is, explain extremely careful how it got here. Please use only facts and figures, no shrill hysteria.
Well, I am certainly NO expert on the matter, but I suspect that you arent either........
Here's a few facts for ya...........
Containership capacity is rated in terms of TEU (Twenty foot Equivalent Units) a 40' container is therefore a 2 TEU container.
At the beginning of 2004, there were already 100 container ships with a capacity of 8,000TEU sailing the seas. And hundreds more with capacities in 5-6000 range.
Using statistics cited by a Home Depot manager, they typically sold 1-2 "lifts" of drywall per day, at peak times. There were 36 "lifts" in a container. So lets use 30 as a round number, and say 1 container= 30 days of supply for one store.... At that rate, one ship, with a capacity of 8,000 TEU could supply ONE Home Depot store with enuf drywall product for a period of 666.5 YEARS.
As far as shipping inland is concerned, you seem to have forgotten the TRAIN. One train is limited to approximately 240 containers. No problem, all of the drywall wasnt going to the same city anyway, so it can be divvied up amongst several trains, heading in several directions. Once the container arrives at it's destination, the containers are opened, and it's contents divided amongst over the road trucks, taking product to their individual destinations, wether that destination be a Home Depot store, or other......
If you do some research, it wont be too difficult to find that there are types of containers that actually are a bit over 8' in width, but even discounting that, Drywall is only 4' wide, and in a 2 TEU container, it is easy to divide the cargo into 2 single containers. E.G. Let's say I wanted to ship three containers of drywall, and the manufacturer wanted to ship three containers of lead laced toys to Mattell. Easy enuf to take half of six containers length wise, and "share" the other half with the toys. Makes for a lighter container, and it's all going to the same place anyway. Regardless, space on a ship, is carefully calculated. Cargo is routinely packed in WITHOUT damage aboard ships to maximize profits. There are systems, and measures in place to make certain that happens.
So briefly, what have we learned?
1.One containership, could conceivably supply all the drywall needs for the USA for, at least decades to come.....
2.When we use the TRAIN, our highways dont need to bear the burden of overweight containers to points inland.
I'd also note, that while there is plenty of capacity to produce drywall in the uSA. During the height of the building boom, particularly HERE, in SW Florida, there were shortages of everything, including concrete for slabs. Drywall, and Roofing materials are where the shortages were felt the most. As new roofs and new interior drywall were needed in huge amounts after the hurricanes that struck the area, addded to the construction boom had the US companies unbale to meet the short term demand. It wasnt a matter of just paying a "super premium", it simply couldnt be produced FAST enuf to meet the demand. Builders looked overseas for some relief, and ordered alot from KNAUF, a manufacturer in Germany. I suspect nobody really cared where KNAUF was getting it from.....
So, in retrospect, if they were willing to ship it here from Germany, what's the difference? plainly IT CAN BE SHIPPED here........
OTOH, If you would really like to SEE some chinese drywall, since it is so prevalent in the area I live in, I'd be happy to forward a chunk of it right over to you. Perhaps with a complimentary tin foil hat.........
Sulfur, sulfur, sulfur, and sulfur again....this is the chemical causing the problems. You want an address of where to see this sheetrock...you give me your email address and tell me where you are at and I will give you my address to come see this. We have heated and wet this sheetrock after talking to many labs...it smells terrible. You are more than welcome to come take a look. You can even have a huge piece to take with you with labeling on the back. I will not post my address on a public site but I will let you know where you can see this stuff. As far as there not being chinese sheetrock in our country...it has been proven and verified many times that it is here. You started this blog by saying no american company could put out faulty product. If that true and there is no chinese sheetrock in America...you better come look at my house...then punch your numbers and tell me how this is possible. It's not chip board because there is not a piece of chip board in my house. It is not a leaky garage roof because it is a new home that does not and has not had a single leak. I'd love to share our lab results with you, but until we get this issue resolved I can't do that but I sure will let you see for youself...maybe then you can tell me it's not the sheetrock.
Sulfur, sulfur, sulfur, and sulfur again....this is the chemical causing the problems. You want an address of where to see this sheetrock...you give me your email address and tell me where you are at and I will give you my address to come see this. We have heated and wet this sheetrock after talking to many labs...it smells terrible. You are more than welcome to come take a look. You can even have a huge piece to take with you with labeling on the back. I will not post my address on a public site but I will let you know where you can see this stuff. As far as there not being chinese sheetrock in our country...it has been proven and verified many times that it is here. You started this blog by saying no american company could put out faulty product. If that true and there is no chinese sheetrock in America...you better come look at my house...then punch your numbers and tell me how this is possible. It's not chip board because there is not a piece of chip board in my house. It is not a leaky garage roof because it is a new home that does not and has not had a single leak. I'd love to share our lab results with you, but until we get this issue resolved I can't do that but I sure will let you see for youself...maybe then you can tell me it's not the sheetrock.
Seems like no one wants to share the "lab results". The only mention of any type of results are those by the HD in FL which cites the presence of strontium sulfide. This substance could very well give the effects being seen, however, it would hardly be part of some nefarious plot by the manufacturers as it is generally found naturally in close association with gypsum and may be a natural contaminant. As for how dangerous it is...I know I have samples of this and its cousin, strontium sulfite (aka celestine) sitting on my display shelf in my rock and mineral collection, I have stuff a lot nastier than that too i.e. lead, arsenates, etc.
Some people may have serious issues with this problem. There are probably a lot more that have very little or no real problem but are having hysterical, paranoid reactions. There are some interesting articles and studies on this type of reaction, and I have seen it played out hundreds of times over the years in my line of work. Folks tend to develop symptoms in reaction to stimulus or attribute pre-existing symptoms that are totally unrelated to that stimulus. Depending on the character of the stimulus ( odor in this case), they may have a reaction that does not seem proportionate to the amount actually present. BTW, I am not implying that the reactions (and associated symptoms) are not real, just that the causes are suspect. I have seen folks swear that there were foul odors present when they heard a compressor or generator turned on. It is important to know that these folks once lived near an illegal paint and body shop and that when the compressor was turned on, the were previously blasted with paint overspray fumes. Turns out they now have sort of a Pavlovian reaction to the sound of a compressor now and will absolutely swear an odor is present when it is not. That was an extreme example, most cases are more subtle. Example of a subtle case: odors given off by a rotting body are very unpleasant but are not really dangerous in the open air just unpleasant. Many exposed folks will have an adverse physical reaction (i.e. nausea) but there is no explaination for this based on a dose/response relationship.
The point is, no one has produced these mysterious test results that prove what the contaminants are or described the machanism of how they got there. I am forced to believe the only test results available, those issued by Florida, which really do not describe a major health problem but do describe a construction issue.
I like what you have to say. Problem is, some contractors claim they use top quality stuff and that's why their price is not negotiable, and an uneducated consumer (like myself) doesn't know how to tell the difference. I'd pay your price if I could know for sure you mean what you say. Unfortunately, one bad apple does spoil the rest . ..
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Chinese sheetrock...............Weekend myth.
