Smoke Detectors (floor, fireplace, Home Depot, Lowes)

[roc dan]

I live in NY State. I'm looking at buying a 2 family property. I've heard from some folks that new-ish laws require the smoke detectors to now be hardwired. Has anyone gone through this? What was the cost and size of your house?

[Coldjensens]

We had to instal hardwired smoke detectors. However we live in Michigan. I am not sure what your laws are.

We had to have one in each bedroom one in each hallway, and one in each general common area. We ended up having to put in 13 of them. The wiring cost was inconsequential, although it took a lot of planning becuase they have to be wired in series. The cost of repairing the plaster from the wiring was a huge issue.

They make wireless systems that all communicate together so they work the same as a hardwired system. If you instal ten year batteries, I am told that some jurisdictions will accept them. (Not ours). The worse thing about a hardwired system is that you are pretty much stuck withthe locations originally selected. That can be a problem. For us the one in the mudroom gets set off all the time from smoke or steam fromt he kitchen. Thus, we usually leave it disconnected. Another one sometimes goes off when we start a fire int he fireplace, so we often disconnect that one as well. Eventually we remember to reconnect them. If the battery in one of them dies, all of them alarm. Then you have no idea which one has a weak battery so you have to replace all of the batteries. You also find yourself running around unhooking all of them to make them shut up at 2 a.m.

Keep in mind, that when one goes off, all of them go off. So if one of the 13 malfunctions, or gets smoke or steam in it, you have to run around and shut them all up. We get so many false alarms that our family pretty much ignores them.

Finally, we found that more than 1/3 of them are defective. Either they alarm all thetime which is fine you cna just take it back for another one, or they do nto alarm at all which you cannot find out unless you go around and blow smoke into them. Some of them do nto communicate properly so that they do not make the others go off if theya re triggered. We bought two cases of them (24 detectors) and still had to return 6 for replacement before we got 13 that actually worked.

One thin that we learned. One of the brnads sold at Home Depot or Lowes is made in china. It says "USA" on it, but if you turn it over you will see made in China. Do nto buy that brand. We bought a case of those and only one worked. We returend them and got another case and only three worked. Then we switched to KIDDE brand and a lot of them still did nto work, but evnetually we were able to get a working set.

We tested a bunch of carbon monoxide (cO2) detectors that were very expensive. I wanted one int he kitchen and one on each floor near the fireplace chimineys. However on a whim I tested one first by holding it in the smoke from the fireplace - no alarm. Then I held it over the stove withthe gas on but not lighted - no alarm. Then I took it outside and held it right int he exhaust from my car - no alarm. Thinking that it was a defective unit or a bad brand I tried a half dozen different brands and models - none of them worked. Not one. These were not soem cheapo version either. One of them cost over $100 per unit. Several of them were Kidde brand. I remember one was called Nighthawke or something like that.

THe bottom line is you should probably have smoke detectors, but do nto trust them and do not rely on them to keep you safe. I would not bother with CO2 detectors unless you find one that actually works.

The cost for materials for our system was less than $2500. Wiring cost was a few hundred dollars more (I did some of them myself and then had everything double checked by an electrician). We worked around ripping up walls to do the wiring. We had to use a lot of extra wire to take convoluted routes to avoid hacking up walls and cielings, but it was worth it. Repairing and refinishing the walls wold have cost more than all of the other costs together.

I hate the hardwired system. I much prefer individual battery powered units in each area. That way, if you get an alarm or a malfunction, you know where it is and you can check it out. With a hardwired system, you are stuck using only one brand, sometimes only one model. If one goes bad and you cannot find a replacment, you have to replace all of them, including the mounting devices and wiring harness. Unless you remodel the house, you should be able to avoid having to put in a hard wired system. If I had a choice, I would put in individual units, or communicating wireless units with ten year batteries.

Oh the are of the house that is covered by smoke detectors is about 4500 s.f. However the cost and number of units that you need is driven more by the configuration than it is by square footage.

[roc dan]

Thanks, that's great.

I'd probably need to install 3 on the first floor relatively far apart, 4 on the second close together, and 3 on the 3rd (finished 2-room attic), also close together. I haven't had it quoted yet, but I will definitely keep in mind your experience - I wonder if there could be some kind of central panel, like an alarm system, that lets me know which detector was actually activated/has a dead battery so I don't have to undo them all at 2 am.

[southgeorgia]

hardwired and interconnected has been in the code for quite some time.


one is required on each level, and within and outside of each bedroom. there are no voltage requirements, meaning LV smoke detectors connected to an alarm panel are acceptable.

[mommytotwo]

Mine are hardwired and yes it is annoying as hell when something sets one off and they all go off.

The old stand under the smoke detector waving a towel doesn't work when they are going off all over the house.

If something sets it off, I've got to race around, opening windows, turning on ceiling fans, closing bedroom doors, back to the first floor with the towel, cringing at the noise. Not fun when it is 10 degrees out.

And when the battery is low, you can't tell which one it is and it lets out a very annoying chirping sound, even worse than the other ones. I don't know exactly how they work, and of course there was no manual in the house as to how to operate them.

I'll never forget when I closed on the house, I was in the process of moving small items and painting, the kids and I slept here on an air mattress one night. I knew something was chirping, and it was driving me nuts. So I climbed up on a chair, and tried to disconnect the alarm. The damn things went off all over the house. it was the middle of the night!!!! I was trying to get the stupid thing back together, my arms were getting tired up in the air, and I almost fell off the chair and down the stairs.

But, hey, if they some how save my life sometime down the line, it will all be worth it!

btw, the carbon monoxide detectors are required by law here in Mass, I don't know about NY....

[southgeorgia]

Originally Posted by mommytotwo

M

But, hey, if they some how save my life sometime down the line, it will all be worth it!

ya think?




chirping could also signal a faulty smoke detector.

[tambre]

Something to consider...we were trying to be smart and save money by not installing air conditioning during a major renovation. Instead we installed a "whole house fan" in the attic. Well, for two years we have been trying to find an electrician who can fix a relay switch near on the fan that will turn off the fan if the smoke detector/carbon monoxide detectors are activated. We are trying to sell our house, and will probably have to spend thousands of dollars to replace the current functioning system, as none of the current ones are compatible with this type of switch. Or else, we may just remove the whole house fan and patch up the ceiling. We are in NY, and I am not sure, but think that you have to have at least one carbon monoxide detector outside of the bedrooms. The battery operated ones were much better. What if you have a fire during a blackout...wouldn't the battery ones be better? I would like to learn more about the wireless ones.

[Bergenite]

Originally Posted by southgeorgia

hardwired and interconnected has been in the code for quite some time.

But not required for existing homes, depending on where you live.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by tambre

The battery operated ones were much better. What if you have a fire during a blackout...wouldn't the battery ones be better? I would like to learn more about the wireless ones.

In years of installing hardwired, interconnected smoke detectors I have seen exactly 1 style that did not have a battery back-up. And yes, the vast majority still set off all of the detectors when one goes off, even when running off the battery. If you have one that keeps going off as a nuisance, don't disable it, but try another type at that location to see if it cuts down the number of false alarms. There are two basic types Ionization and photoelectric. They detect smoke in different ways and both have their place. Also consider putting in a heat detector in a kitchen area. They will not alarm with smoke, but instead with high heat. (Makes it so even I can cook without an alarm sounding)

If you go with the wireless units be SURE that they are of the type that ALL units when they receive an alarm signal from another unit rebroadcasts the alarm signal. Some systems do not and that can make some of them go off, but not all of them. If one at the end of the house goes off it may NOT activate the ones at the other end of the house or at a top floor location.

Of course EVERYBODY tests their smoke detectors at least once a year correct? Are you sure, or are you just testing the annunciation (alarm) system of the smoke detectors? If you are just pushing the "test" button you are just testing the alarm and NOT the sensors. Go into your local building supply store and buy a can of "smoke" to test the sensors, which in turn will test the annunciation system. Test the alarm system about once a month, but also check your sensors about once a year. If you don't know how old your detectors are; consider replacing them. They last about 10 years, and most have a date on them. Usually on the part that is against the ceiling. Note the 10 years is from manufacture, NOT installation.

Personally, I like BRK detectors or Firex as a second choice that still works very well.

[drjones96]

I just had a moment.

I have a hard wired smoke detector system in my house. I just added a bedroom downstairs. Does anyone know if it's a requirement to have a smoke detector in all bedrooms?

There is one right outside the bedroom door in the hallway (which gets set off constantly by the steam from the shower downstairs) But just don't have one installed in the bedroom. The cieling is accessible from the other side so it wouldn't be terribly difficult to add it but I'm not going to bother if it's not a requirement.....and the fact that there is one already in close proximity.....