Legal advice needed...............please help. (hardwood floors, how much, roof, color)

[Ultimatetruth]

hello,
first off, i wasn't really sure where to put this thread so please feel free to move it if it's in an inappropriate place.

i'll make this as short as possible:
in November, my condo had a leak on the roof (that had happened once before 2 years ago). the water damaged my new hardwood floors overnight. Since then, i've been in a battle with the HOA.

they sent 3 estimators over to my condo. replacement ranged from 550 to 700 plus 150 for material.

after doing the assessments, the board decided that NO, they will not pay for the fixes because "the damage is not visible". i have pictures that show the gap between the pieces of wood in that area and the damage is consistant with water damage.
I filed in small claims court 2 weeks ago and they moved it to regular court.

i would like to know what you think about my case and whether i will be at a disadvantage going to a regular district court.

ps. I'm in VA.
also, the registered agent for the HOA is a lawyer.
also, i will not get a lawyer to pursue this. (cost doesn't make sense)
also, i do not want to go through my insurance because 1. i feel the HOA is responsible for any damages to the 'inside' caused by failure of the 'outside' and 2. my premium will go up (i've checked)


please help :-)

[Bigfoot424]

It will cost you nothing unless the judge feels you filed a frivilous lawsuit which it doesn't sound to me. With that said, taking legal advice on an internet forum is not very wise. Buyer beware.

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by Bigfoot424

It will cost you nothing unless the judge feels you filed a frivilous lawsuit which it doesn't sound to me. With that said, taking legal advice on an internet forum is not very wise. Buyer beware.

I second the above.

You should be able to arrange a consultation with a lawyer that would be relatively inexpensive. He could at least identify if you have a snowball's chance of pulling this off and give you an idea about what you need to bring to court.

[Coldjensens]

First, it is impossible to evaluate your case without seeing the documents, and the damage that you are referring to. Your relationship with the HOA is governed by a contract of some sort. You need to read it carefully and understand it fully. If you do not have a copy, ask for one. IF they do nto give it to you promptly, you can force them to provide a copy through discovery.

Second, the difference that being moved out of small claims court makes, is that you are now up agaisnt a lawyer. (The HOA can only appear through a lawyer). You could make a procedural mistake and get thrown out or get sanctioned. The judge and court clerk will not and cannto give you legal advice. Go to your local law library and ask for a book that will guide you through the procedure.

Depending on the contracts that govern your relationship withthe HOA the losing party cold have to pay the other party's attoreny fees. Thus, if the contract provides for attorney fees and you lose, you could end up paying the HOA's attoreny fees. You can also end up paying their costs if you lose. Costs usually do not amount to much, but in this case, the attoreny fees will exceed the amount that you are claiming. The award of costs and if called for attoreny fees has nothing to do with whether you filed a frivolous lawsuit. It it based on who wins. You can file a non-frivolous lawsuit and just not be right and lose. In which case you will have to pay costs and, as mentioned above, cold be exposed to attorney fees.

[desertsun41]

And for some not so legal advice, may I add that this is just part of what communist HOAs are all about. Almost ever does a court not favor the HOA. They are very powerful and swing a mean bat. Secondly and most important....is it really worth it for $700? Your attorney fees will far exceed that and the chance of winning and recovering your atty fees are near zero.

Fix up the damage, chaulk it up as a lesson learned and get the hell out of that or any HOA under Josef Stalin rule. You may even find out how good it feels to have the freedom of putting a flower pot at your front door.

[Ultimatetruth]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

First, it is impossible to evaluate your case without seeing the documents, and the damage that you are referring to. Your relationship with the HOA is governed by a contract of some sort. You need to read it carefully and understand it fully. If you do not have a copy, ask for one. IF they do nto give it to you promptly, you can force them to provide a copy through discovery.

Second, the difference that being moved out of small claims court makes, is that you are now up agaisnt a lawyer. (The HOA can only appear through a lawyer). You could make a procedural mistake and get thrown out or get sanctioned. The judge and court clerk will not and cannto give you legal advice. Go to your local law library and ask for a book that will guide you through the procedure.

Depending on the contracts that govern your relationship withthe HOA the losing party cold have to pay the other party's attoreny fees. Thus, if the contract provides for attorney fees and you lose, you could end up paying the HOA's attoreny fees. You can also end up paying their costs if you lose. Costs usually do not amount to much, but in this case, the attoreny fees will exceed the amount that you are claiming. The award of costs and if called for attoreny fees has nothing to do with whether you filed a frivolous lawsuit. It it based on who wins. You can file a non-frivolous lawsuit and just not be right and lose. In which case you will have to pay costs and, as mentioned above, cold be exposed to attorney fees.

thank you so much for that detailed analysis.
I'm attaching some pictures.....(first showing undamaged area....4 showing damaged) area is about 8 foot by 3 foot.

I'd be interested in knowing what you personally would do if in my position. how much can i be liable for if i do lose? what are my chances?

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by Ultimatetruth

thank you so much for that detailed analysis.
I'm attaching some pictures.....(first showing undamaged area....4 showing damaged) area is about 8 foot by 3 foot.

I'd be interested in knowing what you personally would do if in my position. how much can i be liable for if i do lose? what are my chances?

Did you put that floor in? If so many people save some extra pieces. If not then how old is it? You may be able to purchase more though I fear a different lot number which means the color can be off a tad.

Have you called your homeowners insurance? They understand working wtih commy HOAs. It might even be worth $50 to have your Lawyer write a threat letter to the commy HOA. Little ever scares the ever powerful big bad HOAs but it migh be worth a try.

[Ultimatetruth]

Originally Posted by desertsun41

Did you put that floor in? If so many people save some extra pieces. If not then how old is it? You may be able to purchase more though I fear a different lot number which means the color can be off a tad.

Have you called your homeowners insurance? They understand working wtih commy HOAs. It might even be worth $50 to have your Lawyer write a threat letter to the commy HOA. Little ever scares the ever powerful big bad HOAs but it migh be worth a try.

i put the floor in (not personally). i have a piece. didn't fix the damage yet. it's 2 years old now.
i called nationwide....he said that my deductable is 500 so i'll get only 200 for the fix.....AND my rate will go up like a 100 a year. lol so no luck there.
i'm kinda past the threat letter....i've already filed the law suit and they've already moved to the district court.
i did try to threaten them with a suit when we were in negotiaions....but didn't work. they actually encouraged me to go the legal route! lol the Bast*&Rds!

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by Ultimatetruth

i put the floor in (not personally). i have a piece. didn't fix the damage yet. it's 2 years old now.
i called nationwide....he said that my deductable is 500 so i'll get only 200 for the fix.....AND my rate will go up like a 100 a year. lol so no luck there.
i'm kinda past the threat letter....i've already filed the law suit and they've already moved to the district court.
i did try to threaten them with a suit when we were in negotiaions....but didn't work. they actually encouraged me to go the legal route! lol the Bast*&Rds!

I wish ya luck. And yes that is exactly what insurance companies as well as HOAs are.

[windtimber]

Originally Posted by Ultimatetruth

...i feel the HOA is responsible for any damages to the 'inside' caused by failure of the 'outside'...

1. Can you prove the HOA has a duty to maintain the roof?
2. Can you prove that the HOA improperly maintained the roof?
3. Can you prove such improper maintenance was the reason for the leak?
4. Can you prove the leak caused the damage to your floor?

If you answer 1 through 4 "yes," you've established a duty, a breach of duty, and proximate cause for your loss. Then, depending on the particulars of the HOA bylaws and state condominium regime statutes, you may win.

That said, and particularly in relation to the last comment, you are a member of the HOA, right? So, you own an interest in the roof, the common spaces, community amenities, etc. Therefore, in a sense, you are suing yourself. That's why the particulars of the bylaws and your state's condominium statutes are important.

If you owned real estate that was not "condominiumized" and the roof leaked because of deferred maintenance, age, natural wear and tear, all being reasons roofs do, from time to time, leak as that is in the nature all man made things, who would be responsible for the damage to your floor?

You.

While it's easy to say "inside damage caused by outside failure" is the responsibility of the HOA, establishing the duty under the bylaws and statutes, proving a breach of duty, and proving proximate cause are sometimes a bit more difficult.