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I did a search through the forum but couldn't quite find the answer I was looking for, hopefully someone here can help me.
I currently live in a two story duplex with (gas) forced air heat. In January and February I usually end up with a gas bill that is a couple hundred dollars. I will be moving into a very similar style house in the same neighborhood that is heated by (gas) hot water radiators.
I was wondering if anybody knew if hot water radiators would be "cheaper" than forced air heat? I don't think I've ever lived in any place (parent's houses included) that has had radiators, so I am unfamiliar with how they heat and any costs associated. I don't need specific prices, but any sort of insight about cost would be great.
Further information: I live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and try(ed) to keep the temperature around 65-67 in the winter months.
Appreciate any and all answers! Thanks!
Hot water based heat will definitely save you money, especially if you talk about radiators, not baseboards. It's also far more healthy and comfortable, no noise, no dust pushed around, much less dry air.
Cost of boiler replacement is on par with furnace, contractors may charge you more for boiler installation because they want to push you to use furnace - it gives more profit margin for them. Boiler standard life expectancy is 20 years, furnace - 10-15.
You will never find forced air heating anywhere in Europe, because energy is more expensive there, and heating air in furnace and pushing it through ducts is like throwing money through windows.
The difference in radiated vs forced air is in how the heat is transferred to the house. Boiler = radiated heat, which heats the walls, furniture floors rugs, etc. These hold the heat and in turn radiate it into the air.
Forced air heats the air inside the house.
Open a door or get a draft and your heated air blows outside, but your heated couch does not.
From my understanding that is where you get the main difference in efficiency. There was also something about distribution of heat and efficiency that i do not remember.
The efficiency of sytem is based on 100% of the BTU's available in the fuel minus heat loss. Opening and closing a door is really not part of that equation but if it were it's going to be equal in both systems. The loss of efficiency comes in many forms mostly from heat going out the chimney. Other losses you may want to consider is pipes or duct work running in the basement or outside walls etc.
As far as your conclusion about the furniture holding heat, heat moves in three ways. Convection which is most common, radiation and conduction. Baseboard radiators actually move more heat through convection than radiation.
Suppose you had this magic room that no heat could escape from with a couch in it and turned a hair dryer on floor level. That hot air is going to rise to the ceiling, it's not the heat that is rising but the hot air. Given enough time the room air, couch and anything else that in your magic room will all achieve the exact same temperature.
Stove - brick, wood or coal efficiency by 60 to 90 percent
Stove slow combustion - metal, is it possible convection way of heating efficiency of about 30 percent
Coal boilers and smaller stoves in the US are roughly about 80 to 85 percent efficient. They literally can't make them more efficient because you may possibly create a dangerous situation with no draft.
The reason for the high efficiency at least compared to other solid fuel applications is anthracite coal which produces almost no soot, this allows for a very convoluted path for the flue gases. Here is one example, note that the flue outlet is lower than the burn are. This bed design and that would be than angled piece to the right.
I recently purchased a one story
1963 home and it has hot water radiated heat system with those long baseboards against the outside walls. The boiler is in the garage which is not insulated. The system goes on and off constantly even though I only set it for 60 degrees except for 3 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the evening when I increase it to 70. The bedrooms are on a separate thermostat and that I keep always at 60. My gas bill is very high. Should this boiler be insulated in some way?
I recently purchased a one story
1963 home and it has hot water radiated heat system with those long baseboards against the outside walls. The boiler is in the garage which is not insulated. The system goes on and off constantly even though I only set it for 60 degrees except for 3 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the evening when I increase it to 70. The bedrooms are on a separate thermostat and that I keep always at 60. My gas bill is very high. Should this boiler be insulated in some way?
The boiler is being controlled by the thermostat setting in the house, not the garage (unless there happens to be a thermostat in the garage which is doubtful). However, if the house isn't well insulated/caulked it will lose heat to the outdoors and cool off faster. So, the thermostat triggering the boiler more trying to maintain the temperature. Also, if the pipes running from the boiler are not insulated the water they carry into the house could end up cooling off before it reaches the radiators. The rooms don't warm up as quickly or as well, so once again the thermostat keeps triggering the boiler more often. Insulating the boiler won't solve any of this.
Well, in both cases you are suing FIRE (gas flame) to provide heat. In one case you have heat transfer from combustion gases to blown air; in the other case you have heat transfer from combustion gases to water, then from water to room air. You can heat water hotter than you can heat blown air.
My guess is that the total efficiency of the water system (assuming equivalent quality systems of equivalent levels of development (similar ages, for example) is a bit higher.
I think steam heat is probably the most efficient because it uses the latent heat of condensation rather than simple temperature difference; but it seems to have gone massively out of favor.
Yes, they are typically jacketed with sheet metal that has insulation between the sheet metal and boiler body. Even at that age I'd be quite surprised if there was no jacket, the previous homeowner may have removed it. You can also insulate the pipes.
The boiler is being controlled by the thermostat setting in the house, not the garage (unless there happens to be a thermostat in the garage which is doubtful). However, if the house isn't well insulated/caulked it will lose heat to the outdoors and cool off faster. So, the thermostat triggering the boiler more trying to maintain the temperature. Also, if the pipes running from the boiler are not insulated the water they carry into the house could end up cooling off before it reaches the radiators. The rooms don't warm up as quickly or as well, so once again the thermostat keeps triggering the boiler more often. Insulating the boiler won't solve any of this.
A boiler is going to have what is called a aquastat, this maintains a water temperature typically between 160 and 180. Without an insulating jacket it's basically a giant radiator and will run a lot even when there is no call for heat from the thermostat.
A boiler is going to have what is called a aquastat, this maintains a water temperature typically between 160 and 180. Without an insulating jacket it's basically a giant radiator and will run a lot even when there is no call for heat from the thermostat.
You're right. I'd forgotten there may be boilers that don't have some sort of incorporated insulation...all mine did.
In terms of energy usage they both are same. However the hot water radiator, in practical terms is cheaper because radiant heat gives you a higher feel of warmth. The apparent warmth to us is higher with the water one, there fore if you need 70f with forced air you can probably get away with 65F on water radiant heat... This lower temp is what will lead you to lower monthly bill
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