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Old 06-05-2009, 04:57 PM
 
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This follows a previous discussion about the support posts in my crawl space that the inspector deemed "undersized".

The beam that the posts are supporting is 6" wide. What size of a post do we need in order to bring it up to proper status?

Thank you.
Tab
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Knoxville
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A post has to be AT LEAST the size of the beam it supports. So if the beam is 6" wide, then the posts has to be no less than 6". If the beam is made up of three 2x joists laminated together, then it is actually about 4.5" wide, so a 6x6 post would work (since it is about 5.5"x5.5". The post can always be larger than the beam, just not smaller.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barking Spider View Post
A post has to be AT LEAST the size of the beam it supports. So if the beam is 6" wide, then the posts has to be no less than 6". If the beam is made up of three 2x joists laminated together, then it is actually about 4.5" wide, so a 6x6 post would work (since it is about 5.5"x5.5". The post can always be larger than the beam, just not smaller.
How about the footings? Is there also a mandatory size for the footings which support the posts?
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Knoxville
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Footings have variables depending on the height of the posts, the type of soil, and a few other criteria. If you went 2'x2'x1' deep it would probably be OK, and maybe overkill in some areas (or not big enough in others).

YOu can always ask the local building dept.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barking Spider View Post
Footings have variables depending on the height of the posts, the type of soil, and a few other criteria. If you went 2'x2'x1' deep it would probably be OK, and maybe overkill in some areas (or not big enough in others).

YOu can always ask the local building dept.
Thanks!
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:27 PM
 
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Default Bit of a fools game.......

Somebody may be playing a bit of a fools game.

In fact nobody can actually give you an answer.

The spider is sort of right based on a bit of common sense. But it is far more involved. Each piece of a structure design does not stand by itself. It is all part of a system of pieces that depend on a number of factors. The number of columns can change the game, their height, type materials, all sorts of factors. Can be all sorts of variables that can interact. Type of loads, beam requirements, number and type of columns, footings, etc. There can a variety of right answer type solutions, depending on how they choose the design.

In general the authority is the original architect. They produce the original set of plans. The local building dept reviews those for local requirements, the contractor is supposed to build exactly to those plans. Any changes would have been noted on the drawings as approved for building the original structure. If this was a later addition, same deal, it will have its own plans, they would have been approved the same way, column details should be shown there.

So you could simply go to whatever local building dept that holds the plans, they will be on file and see what was required on those plans, did the original contractor follow the drawings? If he did not, simply bringing the columns up to whatever was specified should be enough. You should be able to ask at the building dept, they should be able to answer the question. Just the street address should be enough.

Or you could try to fake it and just make the columns equal in area to the beam area it is supporting. 6 inch wide beam, column is solid 6 x 6 in full contact.

But if your original plans show it the way it now is, it would be up to the inspector to prove it is wrong. Usually that is well above their pay grade.

You are probably stuck in one of those mindless games played for all sorts of purposes. They are sort of out of the loop of any type of design authority and play a game of bluff for whatever purpose. Probably most of it related to getting a paycheck or something to do with money, usually most of it flowing their way. As a general rule the design drawing govern until something of sufficient authority over rides it. Usually that means having to prove the entire design is all of its pieces is incorrect.

A house is not rocket science, a lot of it is a form of general known practice. If this part is this size, it will equal or exceed just about any type of requirement no matter how the design occurred. Lot of that gets done. More like rules of thumb. Why you probably can get away just making it solid equal to beam width, run it up the flag pole and see who salutes it. Who knows it might have had to been a 6 x 10" or maybe a 6 x 4 would have been sufficient. The real game is start some big fuss and then extract whatever money somebody deems it to be worth.
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Pocono Mts.
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why don't you hire an engineer to give you a clear picture of what you have there.
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:18 AM
 
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Thanks for the replies.

The crawl is 24.5' wide. The ends of the "beam" (consisting of 4, 2x10s) rest on the outer foundation's wall (one is the basement wall, the other is the outside wall of the crawl). In between are the 3 support posts in question, 6' apart. That's all that is showed on the blueprints--no mention of what type or size the support posts are to be.

There is no building code for our village, and so we've learned, not much of an inspection during building either.

So......we will add to the post to make sure that there is 6x6 worth of post at each point, maybe more if the current concrete footing base allows.

The support walls in the basement consists of 2x6s, so why would it be any different from using that (2x6s times 3 to get 6x6 "post") in the crawl support also? It sounds like (from the inpsector) that if the original contractor had done just that (instead of using 2 on angle to make it look like a full post from the entrance to the crawl), we wouldn't have the issue of undersized support posts.

Another question someone raised for me--what is the period that a builder is responsible for the structural integrity of his construction? Where would I find out such info?

Thanks again,
Tab
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Knoxville
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I sent a private message about the repair.

Your area may vary, but in mine, a builder has a 4 year statute of limitations on new construction.
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Knoxville
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Just looked this up in a 1995 code book. For the most part, this stuff has not changed much.
Some of this depends on how many stories are above also.

But it looks like the beam sizing is correct, and the posts are spaced appropriately. The code states (I'm reading the CABO One and Two Dwelling code 1995 Edition) that "6x6 posts, or 4x4 posts or 3-inch diameter steel columns with bearing plates or equivalent area, are acceptable in all locations". Code reference is CABO 1995 Table 502.3.3b.

Of course if you have some unusual soils condition, or something out of the ordinary, then this table may not be correct (but for almost every house it is).
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