The worse contractor ever - what to do (drain, kitchen, cabinet)

[World Citizen]

Originally Posted by howstam

I am in TN. I did not know that any permits were needed nor did the contractor mention any.

Howstam,

Find out about the permits. That may be WHY this guy is trying to get his money and is being so threatening... because he knows he did the work without required permits. He may also know that the job isn't done right!

I've never had a shower pan installed or replaced. I didn't realize there were ongoing inspections required during the course of the job.

Those inspections are to protect you. You can't tell, after the pan is in what's going on under there.

The first thing I would do would be find out if there were permits required. They will help you deal with this guy.

Don't give him any more money.

I would still speak to an attorney. An attorney can stop him from harrassing you for payment by writing a letter.

Cease and desist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This guy is threatening to use the legal system to put a lien on your property. You should not feel bad about using the legal system to protect yourself.

Trying to save time on a job like this could cost you a great deal more time and money in the future.

This is a link to the FTC site... some good info. And, if you want to file a consumer complaint about this guy they can help you. And, if things have been the way you describe, you should file a complaint. You may find that you're not the only one.

Home Sweet Home Improvement

[Eusibius2]

Hahaha - I've read both your threads and if I didn't know you lived in TN, then I'd think we were using the same contractor!

No, but really, this guy is trouble and has the same temper as my contractor. A major difference here is, that we have a contract stating that he needs to provide a lein waiver before any monies will be released and that all permits are valid and inspections are complete (albeit that he 'forgot' to get the first permit and weasled his way out of it). Once complete, money will be paid. However, my GC has also threatened me with the same attitude - resorting to whining, complaining, vanishing into thin air, more yelling, and then apologizing. Such school yard tactics don't work with me. I just calmly tell him what I need and then tell him I'm walking away (or hanging up the phone). I also put as much as possible in writing, documenting everything with notes and accompanying photos. I think he realizes that I'm doing this now and he is starting to 'play nice' lately.

I like the idea of a Cease and Desist Letter. You can draft your own letter and submit it to him. Although that may make him demand all monies immediately and then permanently 'cease and desist' all future work.

In a way - it may not be the worst idea to do what ever you can to get rid of him and hire somebody else to complete / finish / redo the work. The amount of stress, time and money lost is not necessarily worth the reward.

Good luck!

[World Citizen]

Originally Posted by Eusibius2

Hahaha - I've read both your threads and if I didn't know you lived in TN, then I'd think we were using the same contractor!

No, but really, this guy is trouble and has the same temper as my contractor. A major difference here is, that we have a contract stating that he needs to provide a lein waiver before any monies will be released and that all permits are valid and inspections are complete (albeit that he 'forgot' to get the first permit and weasled his way out of it). Once complete, money will be paid. However, my GC has also threatened me with the same attitude - resorting to whining, complaining, vanishing into thin air, more yelling, and then apologizing. Such school yard tactics don't work with me. I just calmly tell him what I need and then tell him I'm walking away (or hanging up the phone). I also put as much as possible in writing, documenting everything with notes and accompanying photos. I think he realizes that I'm doing this now and he is starting to 'play nice' lately.

I like the idea of a Cease and Desist Letter. You can draft your own letter and submit it to him. Although that may make him demand all monies immediately and then permanently 'cease and desist' all future work.

In a way - it may not be the worst idea to do what ever you can to get rid of him and hire somebody else to complete / finish / redo the work. The amount of stress, time and money lost is not necessarily worth the reward.

Good luck!

I would have an attorney write the letter. An attorney will get his respect.

Unfortunately, I've had to deal with a couple of pretty scary contractors...

When they think they can get away with it some of them will use intimidation.

I'm not a big fan of attorneys and I hate anything to do with court but sometimes it's in your best interest to have someone who knows the law on your side.

I agree, that it's probably best to start over with another contractor. First, he's got to get rid of this one!

[howstam]

The contractor had said that he will put a rubber liner on all sides of the shower pan which will come up about 6 - 8 inches on the side walls. My wife and I do not remember anything like that being there after they put the shower pan in. So I think they do not have the shower pan liner there.

I had a reputable builder come in and take a look at the shower pan. He thinks that it is leaking because it is probably missing the shower pan membrane.

I went to the city offices and talked to an inspector in detail. He basically said that if the membrane is not there and it is caulked it would leak sooner or later.

The inspector said that the contractor should have gotten a permit when he was doing this. The inspector suggested getting a licensed plumber to do the shower pan test.

[World Citizen]

Originally Posted by howstam

The contractor had said that he will put a rubber liner on all sides of the shower pan which will come up about 6 - 8 inches on the side walls. My wife and I do not remember anything like that being there after they put the shower pan in. So I think they do not have the shower pan liner there.

I had a reputable builder come in and take a look at the shower pan. He thinks that it is leaking because it is probably missing the shower pan membrane.

I went to the city offices and talked to an inspector in detail. He basically said that if the membrane is not there and it is caulked it would leak sooner or later.

The inspector said that the contractor should have gotten a permit when he was doing this. The inspector suggested getting a licensed plumber to do the shower pan test.

And, if it leaks, over time, what problems will that cause in your home???

Are you happy continuing to pay big dollars for this "improvement"????

Do you want to continue paying this guy for further "fixes" of his poor workmanship - like the one he suggested ????

Faced with this much knowledge of the situation (from the inspector and the outside contractor you've spoken with) it seems that the question is ....

WHAT do YOU think you need to do to make sure this is taken care of properly ????

[Eusibius2]

I just thought of this - heed a word of caution when getting a permit for work that was done in the past. In my area, if we get a permit for work done in the past (regardless of reason), then the homeowner and not the contractor, is fined 4 times the cost of the orininal permit and a 'Work Stop Order' is issued, PLUS it becomes mandatory to submit detailed work plans that need to be submitted for review before the 'permit committee', who then will either approve or deny the plans. Once approved, it then goes before a general board to approve application for the permit. All said and done, my city states this timeline could take up to 6 months!!!

Of course, I have no idea if any of these rules apply to your area... GOOD LUCK!

[World Citizen]

It seems to me that he's spoken to everyone but one who can advise him of his legal rights in this matter.

He needs to talk to an attorney.

[Driller1]

Just remain mindful you can get a lot of money in an attorney very quick.

[howstam]

I talked to an attorney. The attorney has suggested trying to resolve the issue through State's Consumer Complaint system and Better Business Bureau.

The city inspector said that a shower liner / membrane is installed with the cultured marble pan and without that it will leak. The city inspector also says that the contractor should have obtained permit.

But the contractor insists that for a cultured marble pan NO shower liner is installed.

Can anyone confirm that for a cultured marble pan, shower liner / membrane is not installed? If the shower liner is not installed, what keeps the water from seeping through the grout and leaking into the sub-floor?

Thanks

[World Citizen]

Home Sweet Home Improvement

The link above ^ (Home Sweet Home Improvement) is to the Federal Trade Commission's Consumer Protection Agency. That has a link to the form to file a complaint. They won't give you legal advice... but, they can help you with this contractor.

If the city inspector says it needs a membrane, it needs a membrane. You've also heard it from another independent contractor.

Why do you keep trying to side with this contractor??? From the beginning of this thread it's been obvious that he's not trustworthy.

You've seen water leaking underneath your house under this shower pan. They keep telling you that it's dry as a bone.
When he offered to put a 6" thing up the side of my shower to fix the problem, to me, he admitted that there was reason for concern and he's trying to keep it from leaking... after the fact. Did you ask the contractor and the inspector about that idea???

At this point, I wouldn't want this "contractor" fixing this. I would want someone working for me in my home that treated me with respect and who I could trust to do the job right.

Did you ask the attorney the contractors liability since the contractor did work without a permit that needed a permit - and did it wrong???