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Do you have economic and engineering studies to back that up?
I am on the advisory board of our statewide energy efficiency utility, and they do not recommend replacement of windows as an efficiency measure. Simply put, study after study has shown that the small increases in energy efficiency cannot justify the high price of replacement windows.
Weatherstripping and other air sealing measures are a different story entirely.
Our Window are backed with the guarantee to save 40 percent a year! I think maybe you should further your studies.
Just one search from Energy Star (New Homes Advanced Windows (High Performance) : ENERGY STAR) revealed this: Window technologies have advanced dramatically and prices for these windows have dropped significantly. Look for windows with the ENERGY STAR label. Heat gain and loss through windows accounts for up to 50% of a home’s heating and cooling needs. Many technological improvements have been made in recent years that have advanced the insulating quality of windows including:
Sorry, 40 percent. That is what our company guarantees by the way. In writing. Double lifetime guarantee, no labor costs! That means, you sell...the owner is covered! Not trying to sell you. Just make sure whatever you choose, the U factor should be <.30!!! Which is how much heat stays inside your house!!
Oh, now I get it. You work for a window company. Now it all makes sense....
Our Window are backed with the guarantee to save 40 percent a year! I think maybe you should further your studies.
Just one search from Energy Star (New Homes Advanced Windows (High Performance) : ENERGY STAR) revealed this: Window technologies have advanced dramatically and prices for these windows have dropped significantly. Look for windows with the ENERGY STAR label. Heat gain and loss through windows accounts for up to 50% of a home’s heating and cooling needs. Many technological improvements have been made in recent years that have advanced the insulating quality of windows including:
Thats great - but it still doesn't disprove that older windows with quality storms installed save any less. And the cost of a good storm is probably a quarter or half of what a new window costs. Plus any one who can measure, use caulk and screw in a dozen screws can install a storm. Doesn't take a "crew" to do that.
Some of the wood windows on our house are 170 years old. We do not have any problem with them not sealing due to expansion and contraction of the wood. We do not have gas filled wiundows (obviously), but with storm windows in place, the insulating capability of the windows is not that much different than the new ugly gas filled windows.
I had forgotten we do have two new vinyl gas filled windows in the basement bedrooms. However they are not noticable better insulator than the 170 year old windows. In the winter, when you walk near either type, you feel cold coming through them. The fact is that glass is a terrible insulator. Nothing can change that.
As someone pointed out with storm windows (which by the way, you can get interior storm windows now, look at "invisible storm windows" online), you get an air poocket several inches deep. With double pane windows you get an inch or less of air or gas. (The gas eventually leaks out). Gas is a slightly better insulator than air, but not dramatically better. What makes the biggest difference is making shure that your windows are completely sealed and insulated arounf the sides top and bottom. That is the same regardless of new or old, wood or vimyl. Sealing any air leaks will make a huge difference in heating costs.
It is true that you lose a lot of heat trhough your windows. And if you buy new fancy windows, you will still lose a lot of heat through your windows. It would make sense to gurantee that the new windows will lose 40% less heat, but to guarantee a 40% reduction in heating costs is insane. It just does nto happen. Look at the studies. Of course since it is realistically impossible to actually measure a preceise amount of heating loss or gain, there may be no risk.
By the way, with a warranty, remember the warranty is onlyy as good as the company. First of all if the companyis gone, the warraanty is gone. Secondly, if the company does not honor the warrany, waht are you going to do? Sue them? Do you want to spend $20,000 on lawyers trying to enforce a warranty?
In a great many cases, a warranty is just a piece of paper. Do your homework.
To the OP. If you like the clasic look of windows, look at the Marvin Ultimate Double Hung windows. That is what we were going to use (Our windows are 6 over 1, but you can order them in any configuration you want).
Whatever you choose, do not go cheap. It is better to do them one at a time and get something that you like, than to rush to do them all at once and get junk.
You may be able to change them out yourself. On modern homes that are not stucco it can be very easy. But with stucco, cedar siding, and some other finishes, it can be very messy. We had to build a new kictchen on our house (long story) thatis where we were forced to use new windows. As mentioned before, we got taken by a bad window company who made lots of promises and offered a long warranty (which turned out to be a six month warranty since they were out of business within six months). On our house, to replace the crummy new wdinows that we got rooked on, we would need to remove all the window casings, remove drywall, remove cedar siding (and since it usually brakes when reomved - replace it), remove (probably cut away) the exterior plywood, scrape away the foam insualtion, then remove and replace the windows. Then we have to re-insulate, replace the plywood, then the siding then paint the outside, then replace the drywall and rapaint the entire kitchen so it will match, then replace the window casings and refinsih them to cover up the damage from removal/replacement.
THe point of all this is that it can be far more expensive to replace cheap windows that you are unhappy with than to buy good ones to start with. Do not make our mistake.
Coldjensens - great post. The only thing I will add to yours is that if you do decide to do your windows a few at a time, just be careful because sometimes the style may change just slightly over the course of a few years. So make sure you plan ahead and maybe do one side of the house at a time or something like that or do it room by room so if a style changes slightly it won't be as noticable.
I have a perfect example: The house on my street I referenced in one of my prior posts that replaced their old windows with the wood interior/aluminum exterior...that house was owned by an older woman who sadly was diagnosed with cancer and passed away rather quickly. Before she became sick she actually ordered all of her new windows through a contractor and they were delivered to her home just before she passed so they were never installed and sat in her garage for over a year while her family cleaned the home out and settled her estate. For whatever reason - probably to keep more of her money - the family opted not to have them installed. So roughly a year after she passed the home sold to a new family and they waited probably another 6 months to install the new windows. Come to find out that 2 of the windows were not measured correctly. One double hung for the garage and one casement. So the family waited probably another 6 months before the went and ordered the two missing windows and the new one for the garage (the garage has two windows) doesn't match the original that was installed almost two years ago. the good thing is that from the outside the look the same still, the inside changed a little, but since its the garage its not really a big deal. It probably would have looked off if it had been inside the actual house. So just be careful....
A storm window ONLY protects your main windows from dirt and debris! There is no gas in between the storm and the main window, therefore, no insulation!
Vinyl expands and contracts very little, so it can hold a seal with 2 panes of glass, and hold the ARGON gas. Wood windows expand and contract at a greater rate, so it's harder to maintain the integrity of the seal. Wood windows cannot hold the Argon gas in, and without the Argon gas, the window is no longer insulated; it is only a"double pane" window. All I know is that OUR company guarantees you will save 40 percent a year; in writing. We have an A+ rating with the BBB as well, so yes, a GOOD window will save you a lot!!
Just an FYI: Not to be argumentative, but the statement above is misinformed.
Neither the wood, vinyl, aluminum, or any of the sash material provides the "seal" between the multipane units containing an intert gas or partial vacuum. That seal is provided by a flexible membrane and insert(often aluminum) making a glass-insert-glass sandwich. The multipane unit is then simply installed in the sash as any pane of glass.
The issue raised about thermal expansion/contraction for wood versus vinyl windows is a non-issue. Vinyl can be more stable in mild temperature variances, but typically vinyl is installed/manufactured in a thinner(such as siding) product which is more susceptible to deformation.
Also many inexpensive vinyl products become extremely brittle when cold, as is evidenced by many cases of broken vinyl siding during the winter months when impacted.
Although not directly related, here also is an interesting recent news article about some unintended consequences of vinyl siding and low-E windows in combination:
A storm window ONLY protects your main windows from dirt and debris! There is no gas in between the storm and the main window, therefore, no insulation!
Again: I respectfully point out that the information posted above is uninformed. Although a partial vacuum or inert gas does provide some specific benefits, do some research on air gap insulation, not to mention blockage of drafts to understand why installing storms provides a benefit.
Also, although there are many reputable window restoration services across the nation(just Google) a lot can be done by the DIY'er if taken at a reasonable pace.
"Working Windows, 3rd: A Guide to the Repair and Restoration of Wood Windows", by Terry Meany which is available at bookstores online or brick & mortar.
But to the original poster, I see that you mention that your original wood windows are about 30 years old and in bad shape. In this case you probably have less options than replacement as those windows were probably never very well made and weren't made from "old growth" timber. Their days were likely numbered from the start.
Windows older than ~50 years are almost always of old growth timber which is nigh indestructible. I have exterior window sills/frames of old growth pine that went unpainted only about 24" above grade for literally 30+ years.... with no rot. When I rehabilitated those windows, the wood was so hard it still would bend a common nail.
And on a related note, having custom windows made doesn't have to be cost prohibitive. I had a pair of sashes(6 over 1) made from Sapele(called African mahogany) for about $300. This wood was chosen for its durability even though it was to be painted.
With that in mind, look for quality in workmanship and materials in your new window choices. One can find quality new wood windows or clad windows that will look appropriate and be of good quality, but they may not be the cheapest option. Don't get wowed by nifty features such as tip-out sashes or integrated blinds. Those features are nice, but quality and durability should be the first consideration along with budget. You don't want to have to replace fogged dual pane windows after 5 years or the entire sash again in 15 if the vinyl or wood was of poor quality. This is not somewhere one wants to skimp.
Just an FYI: Not to be argumentative, but the statement above is misinformed.
Neither the wood, vinyl, aluminum, or any of the sash material provides the "seal" between the multipane units containing an intert gas or partial vacuum. That seal is provided by a flexible membrane and insert(often aluminum) making a glass-insert-glass sandwich. The multipane unit is then simply installed in the sash as any pane of glass.
The issue raised about thermal expansion/contraction for wood versus vinyl windows is a non-issue. Vinyl can be more stable in mild temperature variances, but typically vinyl is installed/manufactured in a thinner(such as siding) product which is more susceptible to deformation.
Also many inexpensive vinyl products become extremely brittle when cold, as is evidenced by many cases of broken vinyl siding during the winter months when impacted.
Although not directly related, here also is an interesting recent news article about some unintended consequences of vinyl siding and low-E windows in combination:
I am not being argumentative either, I like hearing other peoples statements, as long as they are open minded. No where in my statement did I say that the vinyl itself makes the seal in the window. The seal of the window is attached to the window, therefore the less expanding and contracting the better.Expanding and contacting is the main cause of seal failure.
I am not being argumentative either, I like hearing other peoples statements, as long as they are open minded. No where in my statement did I say that the vinyl itself makes the seal in the window. The seal of the window is attached to the window, therefore the less expanding and contracting the better.Expanding and contacting is the main cause of seal failure.
However, I would respectfully point out your following quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollatjagirl
Vinyl expands and contracts very little, so it can hold a seal with 2 panes of glass, and hold the ARGON gas. Wood windows expand and contract at a greater rate, so it's harder to maintain the integrity of the seal. [snip]
But no problem:
If one is talking about the seal that keeps the inert gas or partial vacuum intact between the panes of glass in a multi pane unit, that seal is in no way part of the window sash system itself, be it wood, vinyl, or aluminum. And therefore the thermal expansion characteristics of the sash are immaterial.
Here is a link to an image of a typical dual(or multi) pane glass panel and how it installs into a sash:
If one is talking about the "seal" between the glass(whether single pane or multi pane unit) and the sash/muntin material, thermal expansion is also a non issue in this application as long as one uses the right glazing materials such as a quality silicone adhesive caulk and correct glazing compound.
People have been installing glass in wooden window sashes, stone casements, etc. for centuries with no problem of seal failure(within reason == decades if not a century) due to thermal expansion differential between the glazing and sash/casement materials.
Cheers,
Al
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Neither the wood nor vinyl provides the gas seal
I am not being argumentative either, I like hearing other peoples statements, as long as they are open minded. No where in my statement did I say that the vinyl itself makes the seal in the window. The seal of the window is attached to the window, therefore the less expanding and contracting the better.Expanding and contacting is the main cause of seal failure.
Different "seals"
