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Old 12-08-2009, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
6,772 posts, read 21,441,188 times
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It's not what most think!

Product Pros and Cons: Oriented Strand Board vs. Plywood - Products, Construction Technology, Building Technology, Wood, Panels, Building Materials - Builder Magazine
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
4,780 posts, read 7,481,990 times
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Good link. I've used Advantech for subflooring in my last house and it was great (OSB).

In my current home I'm using plywood as an underlayment for new 3/4" wood floors, mainly to avoid edge swelling with standard OSB.

Each product has their merits and appropriate uses.
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
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Hmmmm ok. So finally OSB is being seen as a superior product.........at least by most. The swelling when it gets wet is an old wives tale as today's OSB is wax coated and water proof. Far far more water proof then plywood.

Now in this economic depression you can see many new homes that have been built and left without roofing or siding. They been sitting out in all weather mostly abandanded because the builder could not sell it. Some been sitting for a year or more. And guess what. After all the weather mother nature can throw at it, it still stands in perfect condition, only darkened by the sun. Plywood could not withstand all that rain.

Now. When is particle board going to be more accepted in cabinets? People seem to accept fake plastic flooring made to look like real wood. Poeople seem to accept more and more plastic use in their cars. PB is superior to plywood construction in cabinetry.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
4,780 posts, read 7,481,990 times
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From what I understand end cutting some OSB products does have issues, whereas plywood does not.

It was recommended that I use plywood over OSB for an underlayment in my application.
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Old 12-08-2009, 10:16 PM
 
Location: NC
1,484 posts, read 2,031,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Hmmmm ok. So finally OSB is being seen as a superior product.........at least by most. The swelling when it gets wet is an old wives tale as today's OSB is wax coated and water proof. Far far more water proof then plywood.

Now in this economic depression you can see many new homes that have been built and left without roofing or siding. They been sitting out in all weather mostly abandanded because the builder could not sell it. Some been sitting for a year or more. And guess what. After all the weather mother nature can throw at it, it still stands in perfect condition, only darkened by the sun. Plywood could not withstand all that rain.

Now. When is particle board going to be more accepted in cabinets? People seem to accept fake plastic flooring made to look like real wood. Poeople seem to accept more and more plastic use in their cars. PB is superior to plywood construction in cabinetry.
interesting but why do alot of cabinet companies consider it an upgrade to do plywood over PB?
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,427 posts, read 29,611,491 times
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Originally Posted by goodgal View Post
interesting but why do alot of cabinet companies consider it an upgrade to do plywood over PB?
Because a plywood sided cabinet cost 30% more then a PB cabinet box. No matter the box construction, the faceframe, doors and drawer faces will ALWAYS be solid stock wood.

I am of the school that says why waste all that money burying that expensive wood under the countertop and behind the faceframe forever that no one will ever see. A 10,000 kitchen made of all wood can be had for $7000 with PB sides. One can purchase side skins which are real wood to place on all exposed ends or cabinet runs.

Doing this you can tell all your friends that you have an all wood kitchen. Now you take your $3000 savings, take $800 of it to trick your new kitchen out with fancy trims, pull out trays in the bases, pantry kits, upgraded drawer guides and so on. Take the $2200 extra and go party !!!! (and have the last laugh)
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
6,772 posts, read 21,441,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
Good link. I've used Advantech for subflooring in my last house and it was great (OSB).

According to Huber Engineered Wood and their AdvanTech MSDS it's not OSB. It's wood dust. Then says- composite wood... bonded with an
advanced resin system and wax.


In my current home I'm using plywood as an underlayment for new 3/4" wood floors, mainly to avoid edge swelling with standard OSB.

"Standard OSB"- does that mean it's not AdvanTech? Really more curious about the additional plywood. All manufacturers have to meet (PS-2) standards. Which means you could install hardwoods directly over the OSB with some edge sanding if necessary. The only other reason would be because the hardwood is running parallel with the joist, versus a standard install of perpendicular.

Each product has their merits and appropriate uses.
Just some additional info- post was really more about wall and roof sheathing.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Alaska
5,154 posts, read 9,341,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Because a plywood sided cabinet cost 30% more then a PB cabinet box. No matter the box construction, the faceframe, doors and drawer faces will ALWAYS be solid stock wood.

I am of the school that says why waste all that money burying that expensive wood under the countertop and behind the faceframe forever that no one will ever see. A 10,000 kitchen made of all wood can be had for $7000 with PB sides. One can purchase side skins which are real wood to place on all exposed ends or cabinet runs.

Doing this you can tell all your friends that you have an all wood kitchen. Now you take your $3000 savings, take $800 of it to trick your new kitchen out with fancy trims, pull out trays in the bases, pantry kits, upgraded drawer guides and so on. Take the $2200 extra and go party !!!! (and have the last laugh)
When we remodeled our kitchen, person helping us eluded that if we were putting in a stone counter top, we should go with plywood cabinets to handle the weight. Is this true?

BTW, we went with PB sides and did a tile counter top.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,427 posts, read 29,611,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akck View Post
When we remodeled our kitchen, person helping us eluded that if we were putting in a stone counter top, we should go with plywood cabinets to handle the weight. Is this true?

BTW, we went with PB sides and did a tile counter top.
It is only a myth by those trying to sell you upgraded plywood that will try and tell you that plywood will hold more weight.

Dont anyone hit me with a baseball bat here for discussing wood qualities, That is what this thread is about. I want to add PB to the OSB/plywood comparison. Particle board and also MDF (Medium Density Fiber Board) has a greater level stability then plywood. In cabinet carcass/box construction the more stable the material the better. To the consumer this becomes a major benefit in painted finishes. Most highly finished doors are MDF or PB because of its stability. So for all you people here who love your white cabinets........there ya go.

Plywood has a small advantage over particle board in tensile and shearing properties meaning laying down but standing up in 34.5" tall panels there is zero difference in any wood product. The rest of the box carcus as a whole makes those cabinet side walls able to hold several tons of weight. Dont forget, much of the countertop weight is also sitting on the cabinet nailing fin which is screwed to the wall studs. The sides hold only maybe 60% of the total countertop weight.
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan and Sometimes Orange County CA
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I refused to allow the use of any OSB in my house and I am glad that I did. I did buy some "OSB" to put ont he ground so we did nto have to walk in mud. I also used a bit of it for some projects. After fighting with our contractor and doing some reasearch I did some experiements with the two.

Put two equal sized pieces of OSB abd Plywood on saw horses. This both with a sludge hammer and see what happens.

(Not an intentaion experiemtn) Leave some OSB and some plywood leftovers outside in a wood pile for one or two winter seasons. The OSB is completely useless almost all of the plywood was perfectly fine. Some of the OSB cannot even be picked up without crumbling. (This ws brand new "OSB" purchased in 2006 and 2007).

One of the best comparisons is to look into older homes, especially in wet/damp areas.

Salvage some houses that are going to be torn down that are 20 plus years old. Much or the plywood is salvagable. All of the OSB is rotting and useless or weakened from age.

Try building a boat from OSB (Warning wear a lifejacket for this experiment).

Look under sinks in older cabinets lined with OSB and plywood.

Stand on a piece of plywood and pull up one end, now do the same iwth a piece of OSB.


Then do your research. One of the things that I learned is that most of what is labled and sold as OSB is not OSB. True OSB is crushed wood with all of the strands aligned (oriented) in the same directions so that they can intermesh. What is usually sold as OSB is flakebaord (woodchips glued together). That is not OSB, but they call it OSB and sell it as OSB.

In looking at studies and articles, pay attention to who funded them or prepared the study or atricle. There is a lot of propaganda. Find the sources with no agenda (like university studies that are not funded from outside sources).

There is a reason that some government agencies disallow the use of OSB, especially after a hurricane. Look at the studies where they fired a 2x4 from a cannot like thing at sheets of OSB and plywood to simulate a tornado. Plywood survives, OSB gets a large hole.

After doing quite a bit of research and doing experiements and observations of my own, I would nto have OSB in my house. I am convinced that I made the right choice, even thoug plywood costs quite a bit more. They can claim whatever they want, they cannot change the fact that when oyu actuall pull pry and push, OSB, or what they claim to be OSB is nowhere near the strength and durability of plywood.


I have alwasy hated MDF as well, but we did use some MDF molding in the basement and I am impressed with it. It held up very well to a flood. It has a very smooth almost plastic like paintable surface. I was surprised. However it does tend to ding and scratch very easily. For molding I will stick with wood in any area that I care about the long term appearance. But if you cannto afford wood, MDF is not a bad alternative.

I would never use particle board anywhere that might get wet damp or exposed to high humidity. Nor would I ever use particle board if I need to put screws into it or hinges or handles onto it. I have lived in many rental places with Particle board cabinets and I have purchased some partical board furniture. It is really cheap and looks nice for a couple of years. Then it looks and act like it is really cheap. No matter what it is coated with it is short lived. Eventually moisture gets in and it swells. Plus it simply cannot hold a screw well.
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