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I need to upgrade my service to my house as well as install new 200A panel in my house and a new 100A panel in my work shed. Today I had an Electrician come by and give me a quote. I was shocked by the numbers he gave me
Upgrade existing 100A split bus to 200A Main Breaker Panel with new meter and upgraded grounding per code $4746
Install New 100A underground circuit with new panel in work shop with ground rods $2413
Install new 30A 240v circuit and Install 5 new 20A 120v circuits $956
This comes to a total of $8115. I was guessing maybe $4000-$5000. Does anyone else think that this sounds incredibly high.
If you have had similar work done what did it cost you?
I need to upgrade my service to my house as well as install new panel in my house as well as my work shed. Today I had an Electrician come by and give me a quote. I was shocked by the numbers he gave me
Upgrade existing 100A split bus to 200A Main Breaker Panel with new meter and upgraded grounding per code $4746
Install New 100A underground circuit with new panel in work shop with ground rods $2413
Install new 30A 240v circuit and Install 5 new 20A 120v circuits $956
This comes to a total of $8115. I was guessing maybe $4000-$5000. Does anyone else think that this sounds incredibly high.
If you have had similar work done what did it cost you?
Totally ridicules. I had the same thing done with a 200 AMP transfer switch for a generator for around $2400. Don't call that guy back. I would get other quotes.
I thought mine is expensive already.........
Our quote is $8000, but inlucding upgrade panel, rearrange the wires and all the lighting/hard wired detectors/switches in the house as we do completely remodel of everything.
Our electrician has done a neat job.
I think upgrade panel + rearrange wires should cost around $4000.
without seeing the house and what you want done it's just a wild guess by anybody as to what the cost "should" be. It seems on the high side, but if it is majorly labor intensive it might be about right.
"Install New 100A underground circuit with new panel in work shop with ground rods $2413" Is the workshop 10' from the main panel or 1500' from the main panel? Is the ground sandy loam 24" deep, or rocky with ledge/bedrock 6" from the surface? These are actual examples of the two extremes I have encountered when asked to feed a workshop underground before.
"Install new 30A 240v circuit and Install 5 new 20A 120v circuits $956" Are they all in the same room as the panel, or strung out over 3 floors in a historic home that is museum quality workmanship?
"Upgrade existing 100A split bus to 200A Main Breaker Panel with new meter and upgraded grounding per code $4746" Frankly, this seems high to me without seeing it. But I have had a "simple" panel/meter/grounding upgrade take 12 hours instead of the normal 3 hours due to the layout of the house and the equipment needed (exterior disconnect because panel location is over the max length of service feed allowed inside the building without one, can add a lot to the price.)
Your best bet is to get a second or third quote (not an estimate) for the job. My gut feeling is that this Electrician is high on the services and about right (or even a bit low) on the outlets.
I need to upgrade my service to my house as well as install new 200A panel in my house and a new 100A panel in my work shed. Today I had an Electrician come by and give me a quote. I was shocked by the numbers he gave me
Upgrade existing 100A split bus to 200A Main Breaker Panel with new meter and upgraded grounding per code $4746
Install New 100A underground circuit with new panel in work shop with ground rods $2413
Install new 30A 240v circuit and Install 5 new 20A 120v circuits $956
This comes to a total of $8115. I was guessing maybe $4000-$5000. Does anyone else think that this sounds incredibly high.
If you have had similar work done what did it cost you?
If I understand you correctly, you are upgrading the main home's 100A to 200A so you can then feed a sub-panel in the detached workshop? If that is the case have you just considered speaking to the local electric company to see what it will cost to run the detached workshop off of a new feed and meter to it? The 100A for the main home should be sufficient for it as it stands.
By looking at this option there is no need to upgrade the main, run a feed to the sub-panel, etc. It could potentially save you money. Also, if you are using the detached workshop for a home based business, you might be able to write off the entire installation on business taxes, and you will have a separate meter to monitor electric for the business taxes. If you are not using it for a home based business you will gain another advantage doing this anyhow. Once you get ready to sell the home it can be marketed as a "Business Ready" workshop area.
"Install New 100A underground circuit with new panel in work shop with ground rods $2413"
This is a red flag to me.
Grounding is done at the main entrance. Period. The esoterica of why are beyond the scope of discussion here, but an electrician suggesting more than one grounding system is one I would run away from.
These are just off-the-cuff ideas of costs - they may be wildly off in your area. New meter box - $400 +- 4 aught aluminum entrance wire eh- $5/ft. New breaker panel - varies - $600? New sub line and sub panel - varies - materials less than $1K. Labor - this is the biggest part, and it DOES require a lot of labor. $1K per day +-. I am getting around your figure of $5K total, fudge factor $750+-.
"Install New 100A underground circuit with new panel in work shop with ground rods $2413"
This is a red flag to me.
Grounding is done at the main entrance. Period. The esoterica of why are beyond the scope of discussion here, but an electrician suggesting more than one grounding system is one I would run away from.
Harry, detached structures require their own electrodes; even with a 4-wire feeder. The electrician is not suggesting an additional grounding system. Bonding is done at the main service entrance; the electrodes at each structure are bonded back to the main, but their purpose is another return path to the transformer. Its still the same grounding system. If the workshop were on a slab, the rebar in the concrete would have to be bonded, and is also a grounding electrode the same as a rod.
Prior to the 2008 NEC, you could actually run a 3-wire feeder to detached structures as long as there were no other grounding return paths (tv, telephone cables, etc. . ) because of the building's own electrode.
The electrician that quoted this job is correct, and his price sounds reasonable to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Larry
Totally ridicules. I had the same thing done with a 200 AMP transfer switch for a generator for around $2400. Don't call that guy back. I would get other quotes.
Did the electrician come on a horse and buggy? The price you gave sounds "totally ridiculous". My cost on a 200A transfer switch is over $1200.
southgeorgia, if this is now a requirement of the NEC, then it is yet another change of rules that I question. I guess I have avoided the issue all these years because I've not had subpanels in outbuildings. IMO those are bad choices best avoided. My meterbox here is an 400 amp one with two 200 amp sets of breakers, just in case I want to run power to a detached shop. I have another meterbox across the street for power there.
FWIW, the 400 amp meterbox is freestanding, and the ground rod and my additional grounding is at the meterbox, so are you suggesting that according to current code I should have a separate ground rod in my home, 20' away from the box? I won't do it in any event because I know better, but I'm curious if that is now a "requirement."
Just to touch on one of the issues - when lightning strikes, it isn't as much the high voltage that causes damage, but the differential in voltages between lines. Example: stick a tv on the globe of a van de graff generator and crank it up, and as long as you don't suddenly discharge the voltage though the tv, it will be fine. Allow the voltage to slowly discharge, remove the tv, turn it on and be happy. Having all lighting voltage drain in the same direction to a common point reduces issues.
There is nothing wrong with having a separate ground rod for a lightning rod or the spark gap lightning arrestor of an antenna lead-in at the base of the antenna, but IMO grounding neutral and/or ground on electrical service at any other point but the entrance is asking for trouble. Ground and neutral in almost all homes is enough to safely carry the voltage of the false leaders and even a normal* direct strike. In cases where they can't, adding another ground rod won't help.
In reviewing the initial bid, I neglected to note the underground line. That means trenching a couple feet down and conduit, which would raise costs. I still see 8K as high, but not as overpriced as I first thought.
One alternate possibility that probably won't fly but needs to be checked out is running a separate line and meter at the outbuilding, and re-using the existing 100 amp box there.
*there are strikes where the overall positive and negative are reversed, maybe one in a thousand strikes. Those strikes are massively powerful in comparison to a "normal" strike, and can wipe out even industrial sized entrances. Impressive puppies.
There is nothing wrong with having a separate ground rod for a lightning rod or the spark gap lightning arrestor of an antenna lead-in at the base of the antenna, but IMO grounding neutral and/or ground on electrical service at any other point but the entrance is asking for trouble. Ground and neutral in almost all homes is enough to safely carry the voltage of the false leaders and even a normal* direct strike. In cases where they can't, adding another ground rod won't help.
Its not a new code; this rule has been in place for quite some time
Ground rods aren't lighting protection; they are an alternative return path to the transformer.
I think you may have misunderstood the application here; neutral bonding still takes place at the main as required. The additional electrode at each structure is only connected to the grounding conductor, not the grounded.
So essentially you have a ground array, but only because a second structure happens to be on top of it. Am I correct in thinking the reason for the second ground rod is "in case" the ground conductor to the primary ground fails for some reason and the failure isn't immediately noticed?
ps. I know electrical systems aren't designed to assist in lightning issues, but having lived in Florida where appliances and computers were regularly ruined by the effects of lightning in the area, I have a lot more respect for that aspect of wiring.
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