What is with the oil industry? (Houston, Baytown: high school, tax, standard of living)

[EasilyAmused]

Originally Posted by kittyhawk

And yes, the strip between I-10 and Buffalo Bayou has remained relatively stable.

I would agree that they have remained relatively stable, as they've appreciate 50-100% since 2000. Currently a flat market though. Portions North of I-10 have appreciated,as well as portions south of the bayou all along the westside.

[DANNYY]

Originally Posted by kittyhawk

I wish this was the case but I just don't see it that way.

Most of the population gains here have been first generation, uneducated immigrants. While you do need a wide array of folks in a healthy economy, I think there's a huge disparity in the Houston region now between poor and not poor. Just look at the schools--even the so-called best public schools are 30-40% economically disadvantaged.

Highly skilled professionals who have come here are here for guess what--oil and gas. You can't honesty say with a straight face that if the oil patch dries up or if priorities shift, we won't lose the most critical cog in our local economy. It affects almost everything, including the medial field.

Are we more diversified than we were in the 80's? Yes we are. However, I think the effects of what's going on now are more far reaching and permanent than they were then.

If nothing changes, I see Houston more like San Antonio or El Paso in 10 years than the World Gamma city it is now.

Houston right now is a Beta World City, and has been for the last year.

Green Energy industries are coming up in the city, and they are making way to replace the oil & gas industries. I understand that there is and will always be a significant presence of Oil and Gas, but that does not mean that the city is going to degenerate.
Have you seen the branches separating into medical treatment, medical research, IT, port/trade, tourism, basically every sector aside from finance?
I have, I've taken a good look at it's economic components. Houston's energy dependency is 43% which includes oil, gas, & Green energy. It was 85% in the 1980's and that was only oil & gas, with no green energy.

As for education, it is not, you think it's the only city that has that problem. You should see what Los Angeles, Chicago, & The Bay Area looks like. Some of those numbers and percentages will haunt you. All of those cities have some of the best schools in their state/country, and also some of the worst in their state/country.
Another thing is, all Houston ISD's are faring better than Dallas's.

By the way, Houston experiences it's growth from US migration and immigration, not just one and not the other...

For the record, I'm not denying that a negative factor to the oil & gas industry won't harm Houston, because it will, I am just saying we are and truly will always be better off then in the 1980's, and that is a fact, the survival of the city is already there- but yes, you are right, it will take a very hard hit if anything were to happen to that industry.

I do not believe even for one second that it will degenerate to be like San Antonio.
The city that has added 38,000 jobs in 3 months and continuous to get through it's hard times by adding more jobs than any other city, degenerating to the likes of El Paso & San Antonio is a very flawed way to view it.

I will be back in a few hours or so to post the images and economic out put stats and the school district graduation rate and poverty rate and how education levels by attainment of degree's is increasing in Houston.

[Vicman]

Originally Posted by kittyhawk

No question about it.

But, in the last 10 years, much of the north and west sides of Houston and suburbs has turned from middle class to downright poor. The new residents are not working at the port.

The middle class people are moving out further west and north, and the center of the city that was formerly downright poor is becoming rich.

[Alphalogica]

Originally Posted by OmShahi

The city that has added 38,000 jobs in 3 months and continuous to get through it's hard times by adding more jobs than any other city, degenerating to the likes of El Paso & San Antonio is a very flawed way to view it.

What kind of jobs though? That needs to be broken down. A "job" can be anything from Taco Cabana taco-maker to Methodist Hospital neurosurgeon.

Originally Posted by OmShahi

Green Energy industries are coming up in the city, and they are making way to replace the oil & gas industries. I understand that there is and will always be a significant presence of Oil and Gas, but that does not mean that the city is going to degenerate.

Cite a link for this. Also, guess what? "Green energy" isn't nearly as location-dependent as oil and gas. I can also guarantee you that renewables aren't nearly as labor-intensive. For instance, by having a electric car (Nissan LEAF) you rely on the electrical grid and/or your own solar power (if you have it), bypassing gas stations, refineries, offshore oilwells, etc.

Much of the beauty in renewables is the fact you don't need to rely on a company to provide the service. You do that yourself. All you essentially purchase is the panel/windmill and the land/exposed surface area (which many people own already. It's called a roof or backyard). Even today, many people who have solar panels "sell" their electricity back to the grid. This is called distributed energy (or distributed generation). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_generation

Technology eliminates jobs. I don't necessarily see this as a negative development, though. (That's for another thread).

Keep in mind oil and IC engines are a 110+ year old technology.

Originally Posted by OmShahi

I will be back in a few hours or so to post the images and economic out put stats and the school district graduation rate and poverty rate and how education levels by attainment of degree's is increasing in Houston.

Really?

[kittyhawk]

Originally Posted by OmShahi

Houston right now is a Beta World City, and has been for the last year.

Green Energy industries are coming up in the city, and they are making way to replace the oil & gas industries. I understand that there is and will always be a significant presence of Oil and Gas, but that does not mean that the city is going to degenerate.
Have you seen the branches separating into medical treatment, medical research, IT, port/trade, tourism, basically every sector aside from finance?
I have, I've taken a good look at it's economic components. Houston's energy dependency is 43% which includes oil, gas, & Green energy. It was 85% in the 1980's and that was only oil & gas, with no green energy.

As for education, it is not, you think it's the only city that has that problem. You should see what Los Angeles, Chicago, & The Bay Area looks like. Some of those numbers and percentages will haunt you. All of those cities have some of the best schools in their state/country, and also some of the worst in their state/country.
Another thing is, all Houston ISD's are faring better than Dallas's.

By the way, Houston experiences it's growth from US migration and immigration, not just one and not the other...

For the record, I'm not denying that a negative factor to the oil & gas industry won't harm Houston, because it will, I am just saying we are and truly will always be better off then in the 1980's, and that is a fact, the survival of the city is already there- but yes, you are right, it will take a very hard hit if anything were to happen to that industry.

I do not believe even for one second that it will degenerate to be like San Antonio.
The city that has added 38,000 jobs in 3 months and continuous to get through it's hard times by adding more jobs than any other city, degenerating to the likes of El Paso & San Antonio is a very flawed way to view it.

I will be back in a few hours or so to post the images and economic out put stats and the school district graduation rate and poverty rate and how education levels by attainment of degree's is increasing in Houston.

I'd love to see some quantification that shows Houston is becoming more educated and wealthier with less reliance on social services. All my evidence to the contrary is basically antedoctal other than just seeing what's happened to the public schools in regards to free and reduced meals.

And I am not just talking about Houston proper. You can cherry-pick areas and say they are doing great but I'm speaking of the region as a whole. It's the entire region that drives our economy.

[Alphalogica]

Originally Posted by kittyhawk

I'd love to see some quantification that shows Houston is becoming more educated and wealthier with less reliance on social services. All my evidence to the contrary is basically antedoctal other than just seeing what's happened to the public schools in regards to free and reduced meals.

And I am not just talking about Houston proper. You can cherry-pick areas and say they are doing great but I'm speaking of the region as a whole. It's the entire region that drives our economy.

I completely agree.

It should be noted that many people who talk highly of Houston proper and make these claims actually reside (or in OmShahi's case resided) in the suburbs. They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk so to speak.


As a native Houstonian, I've personally come to grips with the fact that there very well could be a point in time that the oil and gas industry will not be around and the area will have to adapt as a result.

[DANNYY]

Don't think even for a minute that I have forgotten about both of your posts. I will be back later to compile my data and sources right here, I'm kind of busy right now and don't know when I'll be free next, but when I get the chance, I'll get it done.

By the way Alphalogica, just because I live in Chicago doesn't mean that I don't live in Sugar Land either. I still very much do live there, you can live in more than one place, you know.

[Alphalogica]

Originally Posted by OmShahi

Don't think even for a minute that I have forgotten about both of your posts. I will be back later to compile my data and sources right here, I'm kind of busy right now and don't know when I'll be free next, but when I get the chance, I'll get it done.

By the way Alphalogica, just because I live in Chicago doesn't mean that I don't live in Sugar Land either. I still very much do live there, you can live in more than one place, you know.

Right, why do you live in Sugar Land, as opposed to Houston?

You can start with this, too.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/7059382.html

[DANNYY]

Originally Posted by Alphalogica

Right, why do you live in Sugar Land, as opposed to Houston?

I don't really know what your intentions are with that question. I mean I can't answer a question that entirely depended on where my parents decided to live when i was 9...

[Alphalogica]

Originally Posted by OmShahi

I don't really know what your intentions are with that question. I mean I can't answer a question that entirely depended on where my parents decided to live when i was 9...

I will take this to PM.