U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Thanksgiving Day!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Houston
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-10-2011, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Fondren SW Yo
2,784 posts, read 4,196,491 times
Reputation: 2179

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by majicdonjuan View Post
I think you can definitely make the argument it's needed from a few perspectives (energy independence, emissions of aircraft, better mode, etc.) but it definitely won't pay for itself in the traditional sense. Some taxpayer money will be required.

Where it will pay for itself is down the road via decreased intercity air and automobile traffic due to the presence of the train. This will free up roadway capacity and allow truck-based freight to move more quickly and efficiently. This saves money and gas. Given the Texas energy mix trains will emit about 5-10% of the NOx and about half of the carbon dioxide per passenger mile traveled than do airplanes. These are huge environmental benefits.

The three problems are the money, the lack of public transit that businesspeople and high-end travelers would use on the Houston end (not so much on the Dallas end), and the huge outcry from land owners when the inevitable condemnation conversation comes up.

Overall I think it's a good idea to get out in front of HSR, but we're probably not going to see it anytime soon. Only when I-45 reaches a certain level of congestion will it make enough sense to enough people to get the ball rolling. Somewhat similar to how I-5 is in California or I-95 on the East Coast.
No, the one problem is the money. Period. The idea that spending a billion freaking dollars on a choo choo will be offset by "roadway capacity" and "truck based freight" is utter nonsense. Those things sound good when one is hitting the bong and talking about saving the Earth, but when viewed through the lense of reality not so much.

Europe's trains are not an apples-apples comparison. There are many reasons why the same kind of system would not work here. A better comparison is to look at the money pit called Amtrak.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-10-2011, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Sugar Land
1,992 posts, read 2,523,164 times
Reputation: 2195
Train is train no matter what continent... So the entire Europe and Asia is hitting the bong and we need a freaking study to figure this out? I think is cheaper to buy common sense now days.. Just sayin' mate... just sayin'

Amtrak? just failed business and management model..... does OUR government runs anything right? Why are we surprised.... I mean look at the track record, USPS, Social Security and soon to follow our famous health care system....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42982187...s-us_business/


Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns View Post
Those things sound good when one is hitting the bong and talking about saving the Earth, but when viewed through the lense of reality not so much.

Europe's trains are not an apples-apples comparison. There are many reasons why the same kind of system would not work here. A better comparison is to look at the money pit called Amtrak.

Last edited by ethanw; 05-10-2011 at 08:14 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 07:48 PM
 
Location: NW Houston
1,150 posts, read 1,918,105 times
Reputation: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhafer View Post
As for airplanes - love flying there, because it takes 45 minutes!! But flying for a family of 4 for a 45 minute plane ride and having to deal with airport security, yadda yadda yadda...No thank you. Plus that's just plain expensive!!
First time a high speed train gets derailed by a terrorist bomb while going over a bridge and you'll have the same type of airport security at your train station.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 07:51 PM
 
Location: NW Houston
1,150 posts, read 1,918,105 times
Reputation: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanw View Post
If done right it should be much cheaper. In Europe and Asia the rail lines are a fraction of the airfare cost.
That's because they are heavily subsidized. Go to the Amtrak website and price some sample trips and I think you'll find that taking the train costs more than flying. Keep in mind that if you're on a 30 hour ride from Houston to LA you are probably going to want a sleeping room.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Fondren SW Yo
2,784 posts, read 4,196,491 times
Reputation: 2179
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanw View Post
Train is train no matter what continent... So the entire Europe and Asia is hitting the bong and we need a freaking study to figure this out? I think is cheaper to buy common sense now days.. Just sayin' mate... just sayin'

Amtrak? just failed business and management model..... does OUR government runs anything right? Why are we surprised.... I mean look at the track record, USPS, Social Security and soon to follow our famous health care system....
Um, no. "Train is not train." The population density, cultural norms of transportation, gas prices, etc. that strongly influence train ridership in Europe don't exist in the U.S.

Amtrak's failure is based on a number of things, but the fact that Americans prefer to drive their own cars or fly is a big part of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2011, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Sugar Land
1,992 posts, read 2,523,164 times
Reputation: 2195
No wonder we need a study, prime example


Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns View Post
Um, no. "Train is not train." The population density, cultural norms of transportation, gas prices, etc. that strongly influence train ridership in Europe don't exist in the U.S.

Amtrak's failure is based on a number of things, but the fact that Americans prefer to drive their own cars or fly is a big part of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 10:43 AM
 
10 posts, read 9,948 times
Reputation: 11
The things is.. in London, Paris, Tokyo, Seoul, etc. once you get off that rail line, the public transportation provided is excellent throughout the city. So most people do not own cars, only the upper middle class and above. A rail line from city-to-city would obviously be used alot, and possibly the only source of transportation for many people.

Texas on the other hand, you got 16 yr olds working at McD's buying their first used car, u even got illegal aliens who got here last week driving cars. We're definitely a car driven state. In addition, once you get off that rail line... the public transportation throughout the city is mediocre at best. If you put your kids on that rail line from Dallas, how confident are you going to be that they can make it to their friends house in Jersey Village?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Katy, TX
85 posts, read 100,319 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelguy_73 View Post
I guess you could ask that question about air travel: "Does Dallas have any useful public transportation within the city? Houston sure doesn't. Someone takes this airplane from Dallas to Houston and then what? Rent a car to get where you are going?"

It's like you are channeling 1954!
Who takes a plane from Dallas to Houston? There would be minimal time savings and it probably costs more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: south by midwest
11,398 posts, read 17,524,853 times
Reputation: 5302
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns View Post
There is a perfectly good freeway that one can drive on in 4 hours, and then not have to depend on taxpayer dollars to get them around town when they get there.
Except on the taxpayer-funded highways and roads, of course.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 12:30 PM
 
977 posts, read 2,477,165 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by milrtime83 View Post
Who takes a plane from Dallas to Houston? There would be minimal time savings and it probably costs more.
A lot of people fly between Houston and Dallas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seiko23 View Post
The things is.. in London, Paris, Tokyo, Seoul, etc. once you get off that rail line, the public transportation provided is excellent throughout the city. So most people do not own cars, only the upper middle class and above. A rail line from city-to-city would obviously be used alot, and possibly the only source of transportation for many people.
This is true, Europe is much more compact and less car-dependent than Texas, and we definitely need to bump up our transportation options where these high speed rails lines terminate, to allow people to get off the train and get somewhere in the vicinity within a reasonable amount of time. But the same issue exists at airports. Once you get off the plane, then what? People pick you up, you rent a car, you take a bus, take the hotel shuttle, etc. Same issues...and the airport-to-destination transportation wasn't necessarily in place when the airports were built. They have evolved over time. I think we have this "everything must be put into place immediately or none of it will work" idea, which isn't practical or feasible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seiko23 View Post
In addition, once you get off that rail line... the public transportation throughout the city is mediocre at best. If you put your kids on that rail line from Dallas, how confident are you going to be that they can make it to their friends house in Jersey Village?
Again, same with air travel...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Houston

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:45 PM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top