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Old 07-26-2011, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Baytown
317 posts, read 307,137 times
Reputation: 103

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Hopefully Houston wil go the way of LA. this is going to cost ATS millions.


Red-light cameras: Who knew L.A.'s red-light camera fines were 'voluntary'? - latimes.com

City officials this week spotlighted a surprising revelation involving red-light camera tickets: Authorities cannot force violators who simply don't respond to pay them. For a variety of reasons, including the way the law was written, Los Angeles officials say the fines for ticketed motorists are essentially "voluntary" and there are virtually no tangible consequences for those who refuse to pay.

The disclosure comes as the city is considering whether to drop the controversial photo enforcement program, with the City Council scheduled to vote on the matter Wednesday. Even if the program is shut down, it will be little consolation to the tens of thousands like Brickman who already paid fines.
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Baytown
317 posts, read 307,137 times
Reputation: 103
Interesting, some cities are actually banning red light cameras BEFORE they even get installed.

California City to Vote on Banning Red Light Cameras

A third jurisdiction in Orange County, California is taking steps to ban the use of red light cameras. Later today the city council in Orange will vote on the first reading of an ordinance that would deter future councils from considering the devices. The city of 136,000 residents has never used photo enforcement, but the council unanimously directed the city attorney's office in October to come up with the most effective language to deter future councils from considering them.

"Despite being touted as promoting traffic safety there is insufficient evidence to show that red light automated traffic enforcement systems actually accomplish this goal," Ordinance Number 14-11 states. "The city council finds that the installation of red light automated traffic enforcement systems do not serve a significant public purpose and specifically not the stated public purpose... A new section 10.08.080 shall be added to the Orange Municipal Code to read as follows: Automated traffic enforcement systems as that term is used in California Vehicle Code Section 25145.5 shall not be installed on any city street or highway that is within the jurisdiction of the city."


Upon adoption of the ordinance, Orange would join the neighboring city of Anaheim where 73 percent of voters in the neighboring city of Anaheim approved a referendum prohibiting automated ticketing machines in November. Westminster has scheduled a similar referendum vote for November 2012. In this case, Councilman Denis Bilodeau decided to go straight for an ordinance.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 4,567,825 times
Reputation: 8658
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3781 View Post
How can they prove that it was me driving the car? Who adjudicates that the video evidence is sufficient to convict?
It is simple. This is from the HPD Red Light Enforcement Safety Program FAQ's

What if I am not the driver/owner of the vehicle at the time of the violation?
If your vehicle was stolen or sold at the time of violation, or was being test driven by another person, you may submit a sworn statement to that effect to the Court to rebut the presumption, that you were driving the vehicle at the time of the violation. A DECLARATION of NON-LIABILITY form may be downloaded from www.ViolationInfo.com or obtained from the Court. The form must be filled out, accurately and in its entirety. The form must be mailed or hand-delivered in-person to the Court prior to the Notice due date before any additional actions can be taken.
If you are a rental car company or you leased your vehicle, send your letter identifying the driver along with a copy of this Notice within 30 days after the date of the Notice of Violation is received to Violation Processing Center 209 W. Main Street, Mesa, AZ 85201.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3781 View Post
An administrative hearing doesn't sound like a trial by jury or judge. Can you retain counsel for this administrative hearing? What are the standards of evidence in this administrative hearing? Do they show you a video, say "look there it is on video you are guilty, now pay us"? You may fancy groveling at the feet of some bureaucrat, but I sure as hell don't.
Why should it be a trial by jury or judge for a civil infraction?. The fact that a live HPD officer did not write you the ticket is why the bar has been lowered to a civil infraction. When you are photographed for running through the toll lane without an EZ tag and are sent a fine do you expect to get a trial by judge or jury?


Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3781 View Post
First of all running red lights is a criminal offense. Second, no it is not a deal for the red light runner because they are being shaken down in a money grab scheme. An illegal scheme that deprives that 'red light runner' of their due process rights.
It is not a criminal offense if caught by the red light cameras. It is a huge deal for the red light runner. They do get a due process of rights if they choose so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3781 View Post
And yes I am allowed to dispute the fine when I am charged with any moving violation written by an officer. I am not found guilty until I admit guilt, or am adjudicated as such by a jury of my peers.
So big deal you are still going to be made to pay the fine imposed upon you no matter how much you dispurte the fine if found guilty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3781 View Post
I have actually gone to trial for a speeding ticket and won my case. Nice use of your tax dollars isn't it? Every ticket I have had since I have been able to drive has been dismissed. No deferred adjudication, no defensive driving, DISMISSED.
Same here! and I bet I have been driving longer then you have and have racked up more speeding tickets than you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3781 View Post
The burden is on the state to prove that you violated the law. It is sheep like you that take satisfaction in "just paying the ticket because I was in the wrong". Not me. Let the state go to the trouble of proving that I broke the law if they want to pick my pocket.
Nope not a sheep at all. Sheep's are GOD fearing followers that have to have a bible in one hand and a gun in the other....they can't think outside of the brainwashing that they received as a child...sheep's for sure. BTW I just was found not guilty for running a metered red light. I was on my way to work one morning on my beautiful white stallion and as soon as I entered the freeway I was pulled over by a CHP and accused of not even stopping for the metered ramp light. I was blown away since the light was as green as it gets when I went through it. This cop tried telling me that I did not even stop and that the metered light is tripped by weight. I told the cop that my motorcycle has never tripped those lights and as I came around the curve the light was green so that is why I did not stop. This cop tried to tell me that I was lying and wrote me a big fat red light ticket. Here in California when you receive your violation in the mail to pay you can ask for a written declaration. I sent in my written declaration with a link to a video that I made at the metered light ramp...here I will share it with you
‪Case#S045902‬‏ - YouTube

I told them to watch the clip @ 3:55 and you will see that the light turns green before you can even see the maroon car in the video coming around the curve. I explained that this was the exact same light scenario that I was in the morning of the ticket. See how sheepy I am not! I just got the letter this weekend that my case was dismissed! See how helpful videos are!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3781 View Post
I never disputed the constitutionality of the Patriot Act. I merely said that you bringing it up in this thread is a red herring and a straw man. Look those terms up and educate yourself on the logical fallacies that you have committed here. Frothy tin foil hat Patriot Act blather doesn't have anything to do with the constitutionality of red light cameras.
Let me put two and two together for you. You claim that the red light cameras follow your every move and then fine you and thus strip you of your constitutional rights...what the hell do you think the Patriot Act does...exactly what you think the red light cameras do...get it now?

Last edited by TVC15; 07-27-2011 at 09:09 PM..
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 4,567,825 times
Reputation: 8658
Quote:
Originally Posted by baytownb View Post
And you keep coming, bravo, we have gone from undiagnosed brain damage to gaping head wound from that locker. I had no expectations for you to have reflected back on how clearly and factually you were wrong on nearly every single point. Or admit your ever shifting positions to try to act like you know something, But let's focus on the YCI issue you seem to be struggling with. Your earlier assertion was that Texas law governing the cameras only dictated 3-6 seconds and as long as they were within that range they were legal. And therefore none of the short yellows listed for Houston in that website were actually outside the guidleines. I corrected you by referencing what the law actually says that the law mandates the use of the ITE forumla for YCIs and now you quote a reference to it as if you are correcting me. It really is a window into how someone with faulty reasoning puts ideas together. This really should be a case study.

Let's be frank. There is nothing you have, or could ever correct me on on this issue. I know far more about it, I have shown you to be factually incorrect time and time again and you have not once shown anything I have said not to be true. I have researched this topic in depth for over 2 years. I have read nearly every study cover to cover issued on this subject over the last decade. I can quote Texas Transportation code 707 in my sleep. You didn't even know what it was until I told you. I have sat down face to face with the legislators that actually wrote the laws and are working on new legislation. I have the cell phone for the head TXDOT traffic engineer for our district and communicate with him regularly, (he doesn't like the cameras either) I have communicated with ATS lawyers, judges, mayors, councilmembers all over the country. You will never even approach the level of understanding I have on this issue. What have you done? Nothing but misread, misstate and misinterpret something you googled. In short, I am a doer, you are a talker and not a very good one.

Weeeeee more fun! The irritating gnat that won't go away. You like to try and claim I am wrong...wrong in that I don't study the ITE formula. Who the hell cares! That is your occupation not mine. I don't care to have your level of understanding on the subject...I have a more interesting and worth while profession that saves lives. It is not needed for the red light situation in Houston...none of your grand knowledge has proven anything about Houston's red light cameras.

If the few lights that you posted from that where ever you got it opponent source were not accurate...immediately you claim conspiracy theory light rigging money scam. Talk about brain damage! Did it ever occur to you that the timing could be off due to needing calibration... or human error... or believe it or not a technical glitch? If it truly were a money making scheme then why is Houston so soft on collecting the fine? Surely the city would make more if they sat HPD officers at those intersections and collected the 300 plus per ticket. There are plenty of things that HPD can do to create a money making scheme...so why aren't they if money is so badly needed?

I like the way you try to insult me over and over...no matter what you claim I will never buy into your BS. You have not proven one single thing regarding Houston's red light cameras as being a scam. You grasp at straws by trying your group persuasion crap...look everyone at CA and AZ we need to follow them! Keep posting those links that have nothing to do with Houston's cameras. The reasons why those states are taking down their cameras has nothing to do with Houston's situation.

BTW I also have the cell number of the TXDoT Transportation Engineer. It is easy to get them to respond to you when you email them...he is a very helpful fellow indeed!

I am a mover and a shaker on a mission and I don't let annoying little gnats get in my way. Your just a talker on a lame mission to increase you and your buddies pockets.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Baytown
317 posts, read 307,137 times
Reputation: 103
Mission accomplished. Thanks for your honesty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
I don't care to have your level of understanding on the subject.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Sugar Land
2,015 posts, read 2,592,664 times
Reputation: 2228
Time for follow California which for a change is doing something right

L.A. City Council Says You Don't Have to Pay Your Red-Light Camera Tickets (and Never Did) - Los Angeles News - The Informer
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Baytown
317 posts, read 307,137 times
Reputation: 103
More cities dumping the cameras after costing more than they thought, legal challenges and not accomplishing the stated safety goals.

Davie: Town Council may cancel red-light camera program over concerns about costs, legal challenges - OrlandoSentinel.com

Miami is extending the contract, and no surprise the mayors campaign staff are ATS lobbyists.

Memo To Miami City Commissioners: Red Light Cameras Suck - Miami News - Riptide 2.0
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 4,567,825 times
Reputation: 8658
Quote:
Originally Posted by baytownb View Post
Mission accomplished. Thanks for your honesty.
Exactly since it does not require having to memorize the entire Texas Transportation Code to understand that the red light cameras in Houston are not rigged and it is not a money make scheme. The knowledge that you are after is to try and find any slight loop hole in an attempt to stand on your pedestal and announce that we must do away with the cameras. I understand much more then needed to continue my stand for keeping the red light cameras in Houston.
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 4,567,825 times
Reputation: 8658
CA is a broke state and is pissed off that they could not make profit from this system...do you know why they could not make profit? CA's govt. are the biggest money grabbing spending crooks that you have ever seen. So the pissed off council that did not receive as much as they thought they would are making sure that the money crooks don't get theirs either. Look into the real politics as to why the cameras are a bitter thing in CA...bad money management is the reason why. Not because the cameras are bad.
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Baytown
317 posts, read 307,137 times
Reputation: 103
Eric Garcetti, president of the Los Angeles City Council, said, "We want safe intersections, but there's not any data that proves this was making these intersections any safer."
Los Angeles ends red light cam ticketing program - CBS News

Critics of red-light enforcement argued that its effectiveness in reducing accidents was open to debate, and that the high cost of the citations – which could run hundreds of dollars – was punitive for poor residents struggling to make ends meet in a sagging economy.
"The point of this has never been to punish people for no reason at all, it's been to make our streets safer and we have mixed data, at best, about whether this does," Councilman Gil Garcetti argued. "It is time for us to shut it down, and shut it down now."
An audit by City Controller Wendy Greuel last year concluded the program has not "conclusively shown to have increased public safety."

Los Angeles Red Light Cameras To Shut Off
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