Why is Houston slower than Dallas on urban development? (Plano: homes, employment)

[DarkWolf]

From an outsider view , Houston seems to put more effort into building densely then Dallas and faster at it. Both cities have a long way from being as Dense as Chicago or SF in Downtown terms and outer ring terms. But I can see Houston reaching that goal by 2030 , and Dallas around 2035.... Which means all Open surface parking lots with be developed on....

[Johnhw2]

I believe the difference is zoning or planning as some prefer to call it. Zoning has its advantages cited by the OP. It also has downsides like planners putting too much commercial in an area so the land doesnt sell and there are all kinds of pockets of open land around, more true in Suburbs than urban centers now. Also an average restaurant can make a go of it with zoning limiting area competition so you get more avg restaurants, more an issue with heavy duty back east zoning than in Dallas. Finally zoning makes things more expensive as you have a regulatory process to go through for your development plan that takes time which is money or which sets density which can raise the cost of land in a unit as well, this is less true in Dallas version of zoning then back east zoning. Zoning does make a nicer looking city but has downsides some of which I mentioned.

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

blushing

Oh don't flatter yourself dallasboi.

Notice what i said, Dallas's development makes it LOOK more urban but Houston IS more urban.

stoneclaw/C2H (ComingtoHouston)

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by crone

You are chitin me, right.

Tell me how to get from Bellaire to Baytown avoiding freeways. Show me 3 ways to get from Hobby Airport to Champions without a freeway. Can't take all day, either.

Just look at the discussion regarding to Grand Parkway on CD. Folks here referred to Houston highways as a target.

I was speaking of editorial, not circulation. You know, what the paper covers. Things like news, government, sports. The DMN recognized it's readers lived all over the metroplex. They even put a big office with reporters, etc. in Plano.

Wow. Like i said, anyone with a map can see the grid layout in metro Houston. If you think you can go from one side of DFW to the other, without getting on the freeway and it "taking all day" better than Houston, then you need your eyes checked. And big deal, the DMN has an office in Plano. That's not telling me anything. If it were in Arlington, then you would have a point.

[crone]

Originally Posted by Trae713

Wow. Like i said, anyone with a map can see the grid layout in metro Houston. If you think you can go from one side of DFW to the other, without getting on the freeway and it "taking all day" better than Houston, then you need your eyes checked. And big deal, the DMN has an office in Plano. That's not telling me anything. If it were in Arlington, then you would have a point.

Oops. I thought the op was referring to Dallas, did not see Ft. Worth. You want to compare metro Houston with DFW? I should have had better sense than to engage in a my country right or wrong discussion.

I said DH liked getting to the office without getting on a freeway.

We can all learn something from others. All it takes is an open mind.

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

Oh don't flatter yourself dallasboi.

Notice what i said, Dallas's development makes it LOOK more urban but Houston IS more urban.

stoneclaw/C2H (ComingtoHouston)

And people only go by what their eyes see....people don't drive through cities with city comparison stat sheets in their laps....

[Queen Palm]

Originally Posted by marcopolo2000

Be prepared for all of the "love Houston or leave it" responses from all of the homers and thats part of the problem. Houstonians tend to settle for mediocrity and that feeds into the perpetual lack of planning/vision that keeps the city from ascending to the level of the more known American cities. Houston is 20-30 years behind Dallas interms of public transit as well.

I'm very much pro-Houston. I love the city, but I have to admit (and always have here) that their lack of a decent mass transit system is a pet peeve. I see how quickly overpasses, interchanges and exchanges, beltways, parkways and tollways are always quickly decided and built. Yet, when it comes to light rail (or commuter rail for that matter) it's proposed, and then they have to study it, and we hear nothing more about it for another 2 or 3 years.

To me, it would seem cheaper to lay track lines down as opposed to pouring concrete.

I don't know why they don'tjust start all the proposed lines all at once. Get it over with. Forget the NIMBYS, cuz imma tell you, that they will be the FIRST ones riding those lines, pushing the ones out, whose only means is transit.

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by Queen Palm

I'm very much pro-Houston. I love the city, but I have to admit (and always have here) that their lack of a decent mass transit system is a pet peeve. I see how quickly overpasses, interchanges and exchanges, beltways, parkways and tollways are always quickly decided and built. Yet, when it comes to light rail (or commuter rail for that matter) it's proposed, and then they have to study it, and we hear nothing more about it for another 2 or 3 years.

To me, it would seem cheaper to lay track lines down as opposed to pouring concrete.

I don't know why they don'tjust start all the proposed lines all at once. Get it over with. Forget the NIMBYS, cuz imma tell you, that they will be the FIRST ones riding those lines, pushing the ones out, whose only means is transit.

Your argument would have been valid four years ago, but there are three lines under construction right now. Blame the Republican Congressmen who blocked rail funding for Houston. The citizens approved the rail expansion...

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

And people only go by what their eyes see....people don't drive through cities with city comparison stat sheets in their laps....

Nobody is talking about comparison data. Houston feels more urban by the activity and vibe, but Dallas's development is stronger in its core. Period.

stoneclaw/C2H (ComingtoHouston)

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by sxrckr

I don't find Dallas to have more or better urban development than Houston. Maybe you are seeing effects of their zoning, as someone else said. Dallas is notoriously known for trying so hard to keep a good appearance and sweeping their dirt under the rug. I personally prefer the realness and more organic and relaxed feel of Austin and Houston. Austin has zoning but it's perhaps not as obvious or strict as it is in Dallas.

Even if Dallas may "look" nicer on the surface, I think Houston is superior in culture, arts, food, and overall vibe. Houston's foliage and trees are much better too.

I don't think Houston people are apathetic, just in the last decade Houston seems to have undergone huge changes for the better. Houston got closer than Dallas for hosting the Olympics, and Houston was a better host city for the Super Bowl. Houston's walkscore is higher than Dallas' and Austin's. Houston's public transit has higher ridership than Dallas', and the light rail is still well ahead of Austin and San Antonio. Speaking of, have you forgotten that it was your Tom Delay who diverted light rail funds from Houston to Dallas? There you go.

You hit the nail on the head. Houston is a more natural and come what may city, while Dallas tries very hard to be someone else.

Houston's lack of zoning has caused a more than singularly oriented development style all over the city.

Originally Posted by Black Jack22

It's a no-brainer that Dallas has more urban development than Houston.

LOL, you are so clueless. Not only is it not a no brainer, it is also not even true.

Houston has more urban develop, albeit over a more spread out area. Dallas sees to what 1.2M people in 400 sq miles. Houston sees to 4m in 1,700 square miles.

Try thinking with a brain instead of pulling no brainers. You will end up with more logical results