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Old 02-19-2012, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Austin/Houston
2,819 posts, read 4,235,312 times
Reputation: 2072

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I hate to say it, but although Houston definitely feels and probably is more urban all around the 610 loop, Dallas looks more urban. The developments are more walkable, transit oriented development, and etc. What's with Houston? Why does it seem like we struggle in this field more.

Dallas's arts district is a good example, the new deck park, and all the developments around. Houston's only real urban development close to downtown is Post midtown square (apartments over shops). And that's been there since 1995. Why haven't we been able to get anything there since then?

Dallas has built Victory,added much more in uptown, and everything inside of 10 years. Don't get me wrong, i can't forget about Houston's downtown eastside transformation, but Dallas has just done much more in the urban development, it's starting to feel like an urban oasis in texas driving through.

stoneclaw/C2H (ComingtoHouston)

Last edited by stoneclaw; 02-19-2012 at 09:14 AM..

 
Old 02-19-2012, 08:39 AM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,223 posts, read 13,448,760 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneclaw View Post
I hate to say it, but although Houston definitely feels and probably is more urban all around the 610 loop, Dallas looks more urban. The developments are more walkable, transit oriented development, and etc. What's with Houston? Why does it seem like we struggle in this field more.

Dallas's arts district is a good example, the new deck park, and all the developments around. Houston's only real urban development close to downtown is Post midtown square (apartments over shops). And that's been there since 1995. Why haven't we been able to get anything there since then?

Dallas has built Victory,added much more in uptown, and everything inside of 10 years. Don't get me wrong, i can't forget about Houston's downtown eastside transformation, but Dallas has just done much more in the urban development, it's starting to feel like an urban oasis is texas driving through.

stoneclaw/C2H (ComingtoHouston)
It's called zoning. Why it appears Dallas has more, when it really doesn't and actually has less. Houston has more multi-family units under construction than Dallas and more growth in its core than Dallas, so I don't know how you came to this conclusion. Dallas is far ahead of Fort Worth, yeah, but Houston? No.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 08:44 AM
 
982 posts, read 1,038,357 times
Reputation: 1258
Be prepared for all of the "love Houston or leave it" responses from all of the homers and thats part of the problem. Houstonians tend to settle for mediocrity and that feeds into the perpetual lack of planning/vision that keeps the city from ascending to the level of the more known American cities. Houston is 20-30 years behind Dallas interms of public transit as well.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Sugar Land
2,465 posts, read 4,798,580 times
Reputation: 2733
I am usually open minded and respect others opinion but calling Houston mediocre is absolute horse sh*it. Whatever the cause may be that's not it and I wouldn't necessarily categorize the entire Houston being mediocre. This is your personal cheap shot at Houston for whatever sick reasons you may have. Take it somewhere else mate unless you have something more intelligent to say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo2000 View Post
Be prepared for all of the "love Houston or leave it" responses from all of the homers and thats part of the problem. Houstonians tend to settle for mediocrity and that feeds into the perpetual lack of planning/vision that keeps the city from ascending to the level of the more known American cities. Houston is 20-30 years behind Dallas interms of public transit as well.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 09:00 AM
 
982 posts, read 1,038,357 times
Reputation: 1258
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanw View Post
I am usually open minded and respect others opinion but calling Houston mediocre is absolute horse sh*it. Whatever the cause may be that's not it and I wouldn't necessarily categorize the entire Houston being mediocre. This is your personal cheap shot at Houston for whatever sick reasons you may have. Take it somewhere else mate unless you have something more intelligent to say.
This is the attitude that I'm talking about.

You obviously can't read as I did not call Houston medicore. I stated that Houstonians tend to settle for mediocrity; which means there is seemingly little to no interest in going above and beyond what is actually needed at the time. Perhaps "apathetic" may be a better word. Dallas is the opposite. They recognized their deficiences and had a plan to address them. Their initiatives may be contrived and over the top now, but they are well positioned for the future because they invested in certain things while Houston came late to the party.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Austin/Houston
2,819 posts, read 4,235,312 times
Reputation: 2072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae713 View Post
It's called zoning. Why it appears Dallas has more, when it really doesn't and actually has less. Houston has more multi-family units under construction than Dallas and more growth in its core than Dallas, so I don't know how you came to this conclusion. Dallas is far ahead of Fort Worth, yeah, but Houston? No.
Well, the way the city is developing is one reason. Uptown being so close to downtown, but really the style its developing. More TODs, more apartments over shopping areas, etc. Why did CVS choose to build a suburban style pharmacy in Midtown? Had that been Dallas, they probably would have put it in a vacant store front below some apartments or lofts. I just see more of that around Dallas's downtown/uptown area.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo2000 View Post
Be prepared for all of the "love Houston or leave it" responses from all of the homers and thats part of the problem. Houstonians tend to settle for mediocrity and that feeds into the perpetual lack of planning/vision that keeps the city from ascending to the level of the more known American cities. Houston is 20-30 years behind Dallas interms of public transit as well.
Your post was ok until the bolded comment. Houston is not 30 years behind, even in lightrail. True Dallas has more light rail lines at the moment, but Houston's freeway/HOV and bus lines is ahead of Dallas. Although that's not the more "attractive and trendy" form of transportation.

stoneclaw/C2H (ComingtoHouston)
 
Old 02-19-2012, 09:38 AM
 
982 posts, read 1,038,357 times
Reputation: 1258
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneclaw View Post
Well, the way the city is developing is one reason. Uptown being so close to downtown, but really the style its developing. More TODs, more apartments over shopping areas, etc. Why did CVS choose to build a suburban style pharmacy in Midtown? Had that been Dallas, they probably would have put it in a vacant store front below some apartments or lofts. I just see more of that around Dallas's downtown/uptown area.




Your post was ok until the bolded comment. Houston is not 30 years behind, even in lightrail. True Dallas has more light rail lines at the moment, but Houston's freeway/HOV and bus lines is ahead of Dallas. Although that's not the more "attractive and trendy" form of transportation.

stoneclaw/C2H (ComingtoHouston)

I'm talking strictly light rail. Its been almost ten years since Houston opened its first and only light rail line. Dallas has its blue,red, green and the soon to open orange lines carrying passengers all over the city. At the rate Houston's going, it will take over 20 years to get to that level.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Southeast TX
868 posts, read 1,356,786 times
Reputation: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo2000 View Post
This is the attitude that I'm talking about.

You obviously can't read as I did not call Houston medicore. I stated that Houstonians tend to settle for mediocrity; which means there is seemingly little to no interest in going above and beyond what is actually needed at the time. Perhaps "apathetic" may be a better word. Dallas is the opposite. They recognized their deficiences and had a plan to address them. Their initiatives may be contrived and over the top now, but they are well positioned for the future because they invested in certain things while Houston came late to the party.
Well if planning was so great in Dallas why do you have:

Horrible Road System (too many of them)
A transit system that no one rides (they have more riders who ride Metro than the Dart)
Lack of cultural attractions and activities (this alone knocks you off anything Urban)
"mediocre" arts district (Looks can be deceiving)
No Theater District or Museum District (Oh yea yall call it "the Art District")
Health Care (you guys are maybe 10 years behind with this one)

These are just a few things that an urban environment has that your so called urban environment/planning lacks. One thing that I have noticed is when it comes down to arts and culture Dallas (not Forth Worth) has a hard time PLANNING that.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 10:03 AM
 
Location: The Lone Star State
8,031 posts, read 7,354,793 times
Reputation: 5040
I don't find Dallas to have more or better urban development than Houston. Maybe you are seeing effects of their zoning, as someone else said. Dallas is notoriously known for trying so hard to keep a good appearance and sweeping their dirt under the rug. I personally prefer the realness and more organic and relaxed feel of Austin and Houston. Austin has zoning but it's perhaps not as obvious or strict as it is in Dallas.

Even if Dallas may "look" nicer on the surface, I think Houston is superior in culture, arts, food, and overall vibe. Houston's foliage and trees are much better too.

I don't think Houston people are apathetic, just in the last decade Houston seems to have undergone huge changes for the better. Houston got closer than Dallas for hosting the Olympics, and Houston was a better host city for the Super Bowl. Houston's walkscore is higher than Dallas' and Austin's. Houston's public transit has higher ridership than Dallas', and the light rail is still well ahead of Austin and San Antonio. Speaking of, have you forgotten that it was your Tom Delay who diverted light rail funds from Houston to Dallas? There you go.
 
Old 02-19-2012, 10:19 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 2,468,208 times
Reputation: 1106
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneclaw View Post
I hate to say it, but although Houston definitely feels and probably is more urban all around the 610 loop, Dallas looks more urban. The developments are more walkable, transit oriented development, and etc. What's with Houston? Why does it seem like we struggle in this field more.

Dallas's arts district is a good example, the new deck park, and all the developments around. Houston's only real urban development close to downtown is Post midtown square (apartments over shops). And that's been there since 1995. Why haven't we been able to get anything there since then?

Dallas has built Victory,added much more in uptown, and everything inside of 10 years. Don't get me wrong, i can't forget about Houston's downtown eastside transformation, but Dallas has just done much more in the urban development, it's starting to feel like an urban oasis in texas driving through.

stoneclaw/C2H (ComingtoHouston)
I could not agree more. Everytime I have a suggestion on making Houston more urban, people go crazy "Work man! Work!" People seem to want to keep Houston lame. Like somebody said Houston is a bunch of tall building surrounded by suburbs. I would love to see more density, people out walking, and a city with some life after 5pm.
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