Champions Forest Area - Lots of homes (Houston, Ponder: HOA, insurance)

[mikegrowingintohouston]

Then adjust the price upward 20k to assume energy efficiency work... But even after that, they still seem underpriced...?

[Lost_In_Translation]

Originally Posted by mikegrowingintohouston

Then adjust the price upward 20k to assume energy efficiency work... But even after that, they still seem underpriced...?

20k? A 7000 sqft mansion considers 20k a light breakfast in updating. Start with 100k and up and you're on the right track.

[crone]

After much research we put in new low-e windows on the south side of the house, solar screens where needed, 2 SEER 16 HVAC, variable speed pool pump, insulated garage door on attached garage. That about covers the 20 grand.

Now comes a hundred for kitchen, floors, roof, replace rotten siding, etc., etc, etc. I'd still rather do this than live in a plastic house out in the middle of a rice paddy. They don't have real herringbone floors or come close to the kind of millwork in these Cabaniss built houses. He stopped the millwork in the ones he built in Spring Creek.

Love Champions area.

[EasilyAmused]

Originally Posted by Lost_In_Translation

20k? A 7000 sqft mansion considers 20k a light breakfast in updating. Start with 100k and up and you're on the right track.

Yeah. Gotta say, working on remodels from the same era west of town, you open those walls and 20k is nothing. 20k would just be upgrading the panel, grounding the house and redoing the floors. If you have a pool from the 70's... it's constant upkeep.

All that saying, with the poor school district ( and a lot of Klein is poor and all of Spring makes people run) and the 1960 location, it's going to be a long hard road "back." It's "location" is better, but the comfort level sold is no longer there. Not saying it won't happen...but so much will have to change. That said, Conroe ISD isn't so great either.

Too far out, yet not far enough will be it's handicap for a few more decades.

BUT... I CAN'T IMAGINE what it's going to take to fix the houses that were built during the tract home explosion (custom and builder spec) from 2000-2007. Built cheap and fast...good lord it's going to be ugly 25 years from now. I''d much rather be holding onto a remodeled 1960s build, with it's petrified wood ( those of you who have tried to drill into the studs know what I'm talking about), than what happened during the modern tract era. True, custom/individually planned homes are a different story.

[mikegrowingintohouston]

That's it. When I build my home it's going to be made of Concrete, Steel, and Beryllium.

[greenwood_insider]

Regarding the harshest criticisms on this blog:

I am very interested to know where the harshest critics of FM1960 actually live themselves. Since the criticisms are so intense, I find it very curious that people in other neighborhoods have time to go around 'trashing' other neighborhoods. I certainly don't have time to do that myself. But if I did, I would extend the courtesy of revealing to other readers in my post: "I live in Greenwood Forest, and this is my opinon of blah, blah, blah..."

The reason that I believe this is relevant is because it allows readers of the blog to understand where your perspective is based. Where does it come from? Thus, not revealing 'This is where I live, and this is my perspective...", basically nullifies the usefulness of your post. Your post if floating in a vacuum. Your argument is arbitrary. Even if you happen to live in a vastly 'different' area from the one you are critiquing, it is still relevant. It would allow someone to understand, for instance, "Oh, well that person chooses to live in Midtown, but I wouldn't want to live there..." Regardless, at least it gives people a bit of 'grounding' and 'perspective' to what you are saying here...

I should qualify my statement by saying that I believe all opinions are completely relevant, yet because this is an impersonal and very public 'blog', it requires 'bloggers' to convey to other readers where one's perspective is based.

For instance....

If someone who lives in 'River Oaks' goes around trashing 'FM1960'--that's not a very reasonable argument to me.

If someone who squeezes into a 1,700 sf ranch with open ditches in an 'Inner Loop' neighborhood goes around trashing 'FM1960'--that is not a very useful argument to me.

If someone who lives in a 2 million dollar, 3,500sf house in The Villages or West U. trashes 'FM1960', that, too, is generally irrelevant to me.

However...

If someone that lives in Katy, Cypress, The Woodlands, Tomball, Copperfield, or even the more affordable areas of far West Houston (beyond Beltway 8) trashes 'FM1960', then I am interested to hear what they say! These places seem to be 'comparable' in certain ways relative to cost/square footage ratio, distance, schools, and lifestyle decisions.

As a recent arrival to Houston. I found most of these blog posts relatively unuseful because they were so arbitary. I had to read between the lines and try to figure out someone's 'perspective', since it's a total free-for-all. Ultimately, I found an intelligent and knowledgable real estate agent, and then took to the pavement myself for nine months of soul-searching, researching, and comparing. I considered everything from the Galleria to Bellaire to Montrose. All of those areas would ultimately have meant either condos, 400K shacks, or very sad 1,500sf ranches. I didn't want to do that. I also didn't want to be saddled with a 400K mortgage in a house I didn't even like. Those were my personal reasons for moving to the FM1960 area. Everything is a trade off. Would I rather live in River Oaks? Of course. But I can't afford it. So I did the next best thing, I found a 'River Oaks' type house on a beer budget in Greenwood Forest!

So ultimately, my advice to people looking in the FM1960 area is go out there are 'look' at it. 'Feel' it at every time of the day. 'Understand' it by educating yourself about what is has to offer, what it doesn't have, and how it feels when compared alongside far more expensive areas of the metropolitan area. It is not for everyone, based on what we already know: it's a bit far out and the schools are mediocre. Those are certainly two issues for a certain type of buyer. But for many people, they are almost irrelevant.

If you're talking about 'needing to put 15K in a house'--that happens everywhere...absolutely everywhere in the city and across the country. As an architect, I can honestly say that no 'existing' house will ever be a move-in dream. That is the reality of having to bend your head around someone elses tastes, preferences, and decisions. It is the nature of 'acquiring' a property, rather than 'building' it to your own specifications. That's why I find it rather naive that people think 20K is a major investment. At the end of the day that amounts to a couple modest bathroom remodels, a very modest kitchen 'update', and the cheapest whole-house carpeting / paint scheme you can find. That is simply how much this sort of thing costs in 2012.

[crone]

Bless you, Greenwood Insider.

You are in good company. We had a county judge here for years. He is still very close by. Had to get into Klein catchment area. And a radio guy who advises on home repairs, been here for years. That guy who owns a world class golf club is still here I'm a block away from a bunch of orthopedic doctors who could retire anywhere in the world. We also have some heavy duty law enforcement guys. Doubt that they would put their families in harms way.

From some of these posts, one would think it is a crime infested slum.

[Lost_In_Translation]

Grew up in Spring Creek Oaks and always assumed the Champions Forest Corridor was where everyone with lots of money lived on either side of FM 1960. Never really saw many of the other 1960 neighborhoods but the commercial frontage along 1960 east of Stuebner Airline never made a positive impression. More a book by it's cover judgement but that's the struggle (along with school rep) you'll always have. Eventually other factors may change that perception (look at westbury, oak forest) but until then you can only enjoy the discount. *Shrug*

[Cabot]

Originally Posted by crone

Bless you, Greenwood Insider.

You are in good company. We had a county judge here for years. He is still very close by. Had to get into Klein catchment area. And a radio guy who advises on home repairs, been here for years. That guy who owns a world class golf club is still here I'm a block away from a bunch of orthopedic doctors who could retire anywhere in the world. We also have some heavy duty law enforcement guys. Doubt that they would put their families in harms way.

From some of these posts, one would think it is a crime infested slum.

And from some of those posts, a bit of snobbery comes across too.

[greenwood_insider]

Regarding the visual character of the 'FM1960', 'Steubner Airline Road', and 'Veterans Memorial' commercial strips...

All of these retail corridors are not 'ideal'. That said, most commercial strips in Houston are relatively 'hard on the eyes'--especially for people that are not from Houston and accustomed to zoned and heavily regulated built environments. This is Texas. Houston is an unzoned city. It's a very, very different approach to city planning and land development when compared to cities in most of the rest of the United States, particularly the Northeast and Midwest.

My impression comes from the perspective of growing up and living the majority of my life in the Northeast & Upper Midwest. In those areas, complex zoning controls govern the public realm. That is not the case in Houston. So, when my family members visit from New York, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and California--they are pretty alarmed at the randomness of our built environment. Gun shops, loan sharks, title 'bureaus', used car lots, massage parlors, and porn palaces are generally spread evenly around the city! This is really very bizarre for people in most parts of the country. In most cities, 'vice' businesses are typically 'zoned' into screened and specific areas of cities. Not here. Embarassing? You bet, but I sense that people here are used to seeing this stuff. Sure, it is unnerving, yet, it is also our 'common', 'daily', and 'shared' experience. Travel along any of our freeways and you cannot escape it...

When comparing the eyesores along 'FM1960' to the rest of the eyesores all around the metropolitan area--there isn't too much difference. Westheimer past the Galleria is generally a free-for-all. While a bit more solidly 'mid-scale' than 'FM1960', it's still generally ugly, especially after Beltway 8. If the western extension of 'Westheimer' (beyond the Galleria) is considered to be the standard-bearer for Houston's 'commercial corridors', there is nominal difference between the visual condition of Westheimer and the better parts of 'FM1960'. Champions Village, Target, and Willowbrook look pretty comparable to the 'Westheimer' aesthetic--which is neither master planned nor perfect, but also not completely uncommon in Houston. Go a bit beyond the commercial corridors and you will find true residential havens. These are idyllic, tranquil, and special places...

However, if you find unregulated 'suburban sprawl' commercial development to be a problem, you will need to either jump the county border and buy a smaller and more expensive house in The Woodlands, or cough up about 500-800K more for a similar house in West U, River Oaks, or Memorial..! Those are about the only places, in my opinion, where you can entirely escape the suburban sprawl 'aesthetic' of our city. This is, unfortunately, the downside of living in Houston--or seen from an optimistic point of view, part of its ramshackle Texas charm...!

The upside of living in Houston is that it is really affordable. Real estate is inexpensive. We have two great airports that connect us to the rest of the world seamlessly. It's a diverse and international city. There is an old school 'Southern' (or Texas?) kindness and respect here. People are genuinely friendly and they smile...! These are the benefits that tend to balance the visual 'inconveniences' of the built environment.