Terrible Traffic Dilemma (Houston, Willis, Earth: house, unemployment rate, college)

[westhou]

Originally Posted by jek74

Let me try this again. I'm aware people work minimum wage jobs. Heck, most of the country does for that matter. My question was, do you really think some uneducated hick is driving halfway across the country to work for min wage in TX when they could work that same job in Omaha? Please walk me through this logic. And like Denzel Washington use to say, explain it to me like I'm a 5 year old. Thanks.

Don't bother. He just wants to argue with you. He really doesn't believe anything he's saying.

[kaio007]

Originally Posted by newton22

I drive in Houston traffic for two hours roundtrip everyday.

In a stickshift.

Top that.

I'm relatively new to Houston. My 20 mile commute to work (from W to SW) is about a 2 hour round trip every day... in a 6spd sports car. I no longer take I-10 to the Beltway... I no longer drive my car either. I take my bike (motorcycle) thru the backroads. Avoid the tolls and most of the parking lot traffic... but my commute is still about 1:45 min round trip.. hah

[jek74]

I'm sure this has been discussed on here before so forgive me if I'm rehashing an old debate, but what about variable toll pricing. Where we let supply and demand dictate the price of tolls. If the tollways are busier then normal, you start jacking up the rates. At some price point, guys are going to get off the damn toll and say screw it. But when the toll ways are empty, you might as well let everyone on there for almost nothing. Obviously the rates would be posted miles ahead of the entrance to the tollways. I believe a big part of the traffic mess could be helped partially by being more efficient. There is a utility curve here where everyone's time has different value. Sure, we all want to get somewhere fast but some people's time is worth more then others. Why not let the market dictate the cost of the tolls? Has this been talked about?

[Dopo]

Same ol' mother........ story for me

This morning I got on I-45 to go to work
The highway is PACKED with cars, all the cars are doing about 45-50MPH at that moment I think
"I bet $1 million that if I pass 10 cars, I'm going to find one sob on the left lane doing 50MPH with absolutely nobody in front of him for 1/2 mile"

I pass a car here, a car there, a car here.... WOW LOOK AT THAT!!!!!! I WAS RIGHT
I pass some sob doing 50MPH on the left lane and all of a sudden the highway is completely empty in front of me.
Hold on.... that's weird, maybe I should look back
Well, I see that sob about 1/4 mile behind me and about 1000 cars stuck behind him.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by jek74

How many of you guys are just refusing to drive on the toll roads? Be honest. Don't be so cheap.

https://www.hctra.org/tollroads_map/

Let's see
I had a friend that lived in Spring and worked in Stafford = $8.40/day
If he has a normal car, he gets 25mpg @ 100 mile round trip = 4 gallons of gas x $3.00 = $12 in gas

My friend was paying $12 in gas plus $8.40 in toll
or the same as paying $5.10/gallon when everybody else is paying $3/gallon

And you know how good that $5/gallon is going to sound when you know that you have to drive 100 miles everyday to go to work = $20/day.

Originally Posted by jek74

If the tollways are busier then normal, you start jacking up the rates. At some price point, guys are going to get off the damn toll and say screw it.

What happens to the people that get off the toll road?
Do they just disappear?

[jek74]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Let's see
I had a friend that lived in Spring and worked in Stafford = $8.40/day
If he has a normal car, he gets 25mpg @ 100 mile round trip = 4 gallons of gas x $3.00 = $12 in gas

My friend was paying $12 in gas plus $8.40 in toll
or the same as paying $5.10/gallon when everybody else is paying $3/gallon

And you know how good that $5/gallon is going to sound when you know that you have to drive 100 miles everyday to go to work = $20/day.


What happens to the people that get off the toll road?
Do they just disappear?

Alright, let's address these points. Your buddy "chose" to live 50 miles from work. The definition of insanity. Hey, if I wanted to live on Park Ave in NY it's going to cost me.

What happens to people who get off the toll? Well, let's play this math out. Let's create a world where there is exactly 100 cars that go to work every day. And they all leave at the same time and travel exactly the same distance. However, these 100 people make very random decisions everyday as to whether they take the toll or the normal hwy. Some days, they split the difference perfectly. We have 50 cars on the toll and 50 cars on the hwy and traffic flows absolutely perfectly. This is pure random luck though. Some days though they go to the other extreme, where 90 cars are on the hwy and only 10 on the toll creating massive traffic on the hwy. Others day we have the opposite where 90 are on the toll and only 10 on the hwy. The idea of course would be to inform these random people in such a way to have a more equal distribution of cars on both the toll and the highways. So on days where 90 cars are on the toll and only 10 on the highway, we raise the price of the tolls "informing" them that the hwy is actually less crowded and free! So some cars move over and as they do the price of the tolls start coming down. If too many cross over to the hwy, the tolls will become super cheap "informing" them that the tolls are rather empty. Now, we probably never get a perfect 50/50 distribution. The reality is an ebb and flow where traffic goes back and forth between slightly heavier on the hwy to slightly heavier on the tolls. The idea is to reduce traffic through efficiency of technology.

[TVC15]

Originally Posted by kaio007

I'm relatively new to Houston. My 20 mile commute to work (from W to SW) is about a 2 hour round trip every day... in a 6spd sports car. I no longer take I-10 to the Beltway... I no longer drive my car either. I take my bike (motorcycle) thru the backroads. Avoid the tolls and most of the parking lot traffic... but my commute is still about 1:45 min round trip.. hah

And I bet it is much more enjoyable than taking the car!

Zoom Zoom Attachment 104390

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by jek74

However, these 100 people make very random decisions everyday as to whether they take the toll or the normal hwy. Some days, they split the difference perfectly. We have 50 cars on the toll and 50 cars on the hwy and traffic flows absolutely perfectly. This is pure random luck though.

So some cars move over and as they do the price of the tolls start coming down.

That example only works in a World without rush hour traffic (7-8am and 5-6pm)

I tell you what idea I like better....
since toll roads work so good, why not just use all the money that they are making to add extra lanes on those toll roads?
That's funny, I don't think I've ever heard of a toll road making an expansion .... without using tax dollars.

[Lost_In_Translation]

Originally Posted by Dopo

That example only works in a World without rush hour traffic (7-8am and 5-6pm)

I tell you what idea I like better....
since toll roads work so good, why not just use all the money that they are making to add extra lanes on those toll roads?
That's funny, I don't think I've ever heard of a toll road making an expansion .... without using tax dollars.

Usually because toll revenue is funneled to lots of non toll road projects. It's just a bucket of money used to offset other costs. If not for toll revenue, sales tax/gas tax would need to be higher.

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Same ol' mother........ story for me

This morning I got on I-45 to go to work
The highway is PACKED with cars, all the cars are doing about 45-50MPH at that moment I think
"I bet $1 million that if I pass 10 cars, I'm going to find one sob on the left lane doing 50MPH with absolutely nobody in front of him for 1/2 mile"

I pass a car here, a car there, a car here.... WOW LOOK AT THAT!!!!!! I WAS RIGHT
I pass some sob doing 50MPH on the left lane and all of a sudden the highway is completely empty in front of me.
Hold on.... that's weird, maybe I should look back
Well, I see that sob about 1/4 mile behind me and about 1000 cars stuck behind him.

I really feel for you. Those are the worst traffic experiences, especially when you are in a slight rush. I hate it when I see things like that. Just happened to me twice the other day too. And what was worse was that there were four cars, one in each lane, creating a damn forcefield for about 1/2 mile going at 60-63MPH. Luckily, the car in the right lane exited and I quickly switched into that lane and stayed in the right lane for about five miles at 70MPH until I reached my exit, with a trail of a couple of cars who escaped behind me.

The other time, it was only a two lane freeway in DFW (needs to be expanded), but this ***** in the left lane was driving side by side with an 18-wheeler in the right lane. She only got about halfway through passing and just stopped passing him for miles. Going at about 65. The 18-wheeler sped up a little and a car leaked out from the right lane, but there are still like 30 cars in the pack behind all this. So, I just said the hell with it and sped up real fast, used the inside shoulder and passed around her and then passed the 18 wheeler, and then moved to the right lane where I stayed at nearly 75 for a couple of miles until my exit.

Can't tell you how many times I've seen on the Katy Freeway, where the tollway exits onto the freeway and creates a new left lane, someone already in the left lane just move over to that lane for no reason at all (no one in front of them). Or I'm about to pass someone in the right lane, and they move over in front of me for no reason (no one entering the freeway, they just move).