2 burglars shot dead in Pasadena (River Oaks: lawyer, work, house)

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by KimK

I do want to point out something here to the various folks who have demeaned New Yorkers and Californians for being soft on crime. Many of these small towns in the U.S. actively recruit some of us big city police to bring a level of sophistication, knowledge, experience and professionalism to cities that currently lack it. So, lets give a little credit here to the "people not from here" for stepping in to help out because some of these places really need guidance but they cannot afford it for whatever reason.

I don't think it was necessarily intending to "demean" folks from the NE or West Coast over attitudes concerning crime, as it was to point out those differences. Which are relevevant to the topic at hand.

So far as what you say about smaller towns recruiting big city certified officers to bring in some "higher level" of sophistication, etc, I am sure there is something to that. If I didn't mention it before, I worked -- quite a few years ago -- and for a couple of years -- in a small town sheriffs office (as a dispatcher while going to college and minoring in criminal justice back then). Also, I have quite a few relatives and friend who were/are, in law enforcement. So I am not unfamiliar with the profession. And I certainly respect it.

However, there can be a double-edge sword here too. That is to say, while it is admirable and beneficial that certain techniques and, perhaps, an elevated level of "professionalism" might come into play with the "new blood," the flip side is that all too often these (especially younger) officers, when coming from totally different regions, have little empathy and/or understanding of and/or with the new culture. This is where problems arise, and where citizen/police relations go south (no pun intended! ) in a hurry.

A "typical" conversation I have had with aquaintances in law enforcement who are native Texans is that some of these new officers who have moved down from the north or west coast, is that the latter are not terribly thrilled with -- if not right out opposed -- to the right of "civilians" to carry concealed handguns. Further, believe that Texas law which comes down hard on the private citizens right to use deadly force in defense of person and property are far too "liberal" (an odd term to use in Texas! LOL). Which, put another way, is that some almost view it as an "usurpation" of their own authority and perceived special rights as law enforcement officers...

[JVTX72]

Originally Posted by MrSykes

Not only that, but he also disobeyed the order given by the dispatcher to remain in the house, and actually informed her of his intent to kill these two men right before doing it.

I watched the KHOU segment on that and heard the 911 call. This man did infact inform the dispatcher he was going to shoot, even after the dispatcher repeatly told him to stay inside. Now my question is if they charge the man, which they probably will, would it be construde as "premeditated", which I believe is a Capital offense, since he did state he intended on shooting?

[southeasttexas]

Originally Posted by MrSykes

He was also aware of the direct order given by the police dispatcher to remain in his house and wait for the police to arrive, which he ignored.

And he is 61.

I have a problem with that statement. As far as the "direct order" goes, it came from a 911 dispatch, not a police officer. The 911 operators have NO athority over the average citizen. They are generally civilian employees. I also have an issue with "age 61". So what?? That is totally irrelevant. On KTRH 740, BTW, public support is running about 80% for... That guy is a hero. I would be GLAD to have him as my neighbor! God Bless him!

[glorplaxy]

I want a neighbor like him.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by southeasttexas

I have a problem with that statement. As far as the "direct order" goes, it came from a 911 dispatch, not a police officer. The 911 operators have NO athority over the average citizen. They are generally civilian employees. I also have an issue with "age 61". So what?? That is totally irrelevant. On KTRH 740, BTW, public support is running about 80% for... That guy is a hero. I would be GLAD to have him as my neighbor! God Bless him!

Absolutely right. This was a "point" I brought up early on in the thread. That is, a dispatcher (and I used to be one) has no legal authority to order a private citizen to do anything. At most, they can pass on the orders of a law enforcement officer on duty, and use language in a way which emphasizes the same. And yes, they may offer good advise and be firm in doing so, but there are legal differences involved.

In this instance, it appears the dispatcher acted very professionally. And, much as I come down hard on the side of Mr. Horn as in that he was inside the law in Texas (JUST inside), I do agree that, at best, he SHOULD have kept his mouth shut when talking to the dispatcher who seemed to have some good understanding of what was going on. To say I am going to go out and "shoot" someone is just an extremely stupid thing to say.

I guess we will all just have to see how the case comes out. And all the details. I do know that I'll take him -- as was said -- as a neighbor ANY day, over the opposition. And that his actions just might, by golly, make a few gangbangers think twice about just what is wise to try, in Texas....

[imaterry78259]

Originally Posted by glorplaxy

I want a neighbor like him.

Me too, I could pay him 50 bucks a month for home security service. I bet you every burgular will think twice about going into that neighborhood again.
Hey, I hope this guy runs for sheriff, he would win in a landslide.

[imaterry78259]

What a treat to have this guys as a neighbor and the CherryPit Swingers Club as a neighbor on the other side of you

[Wysiwyg]

any darker skinned individual want to be Mr. Horn's neighbor? I dont wear sleek shirts everyday hmm so i guess i'll pass

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by JVTX72

I watched the KHOU segment on that and heard the 911 call. This man did infact inform the dispatcher he was going to shoot, even after the dispatcher repeatly told him to stay inside. Now my question is if they charge the man, which they probably will, would it be construde as "premeditated", which I believe is a Capital offense, since he did state he intended on shooting?

A good prosecutor would want to consider that, but I doubt that premeditation will hold much water in this case, given the questions of motive that would inevitably arise in a case where the "victims" were actually engaged in criminal activity. I think voluntary manslaughter via "imperfect self-defense" (where the shooter acted under an unreasonable perception of threat) would be the most likely route.

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by southeasttexas

I have a problem with that statement. As far as the "direct order" goes, it came from a 911 dispatch, not a police officer. The 911 operators have NO athority over the average citizen.

Of course they don't, but they do have a responsibility to issue orders (or "suggestions" if that makes you feel better) conducive to public safety, based on the information conveyed to them by the caller. It is up to the caller to follow them. Sure he doesn't have to, but if he decides to act in a manner to the contrary all the liability shifts toward him.

They are generally civilian employees. I also have an issue with "age 61". So what?? That is totally irrelevant.

I only indicated his correct age in response to a post indicating that he was 72. Did you read the entire thread?

On KTRH 740, BTW, public support is running about 80% for... That guy is a hero. I would be GLAD to have him as my neighbor! God Bless him!

Goof for him. Not that that matters in the eyes of the law. The only real "hero" in my eyes was the dispatcher, who did his best to keep a very volatile situation under control while dealing with a hell-bent, impassioned, homicidal vigilante.