2 burglars shot dead in Pasadena (Houston: house, to live, law)

[lukeache]

I was wondering what people think of this story?! I honestly have mixed feelings about it. I am sure he thought he was doing the right thing but I am not sure if those burglars deserved to die. Anyways, when you are involved in some criminal activity, that is the kind of risk you are taking. It seems like under Texas law, this is absolutely legal. Comments?

Nov. 15, 2007, 4:27PM
Pasadena man fatally shoots burglary suspects



A Pasadena homeowner this afternoon fatally shot two men he believed were burglarizing his neighbor's house, police said.

[Huckleberry3911948]

here on the coast we take it a notch further. all self defense is inappopriate and is heavily punished. no such thing as crime. everything is a terrible misunderstanding.
even if the burglars had assaulted or injured women and children this guy with the shotgun would have been punished,
the sky is cryin.

[NCN]

Originally Posted by Bunky39

here on the coast we take it a notch further. all self defense is inappopriate and is heavily punished. no such thing as crime. everything is a terrible misunderstanding.
even if the burglars had assaulted or injured women and children this guy with the shotgun would have been punished,
the sky is cryin.

I am concerned with the attitudes of some people that it will become like that here. Burglars need to beware. People should be allowed to protect their homes. He gave them a chance to stop, they were breaking the law. If more of them get shot, maybe it will stop crime. Nothing else seems to stop it.

I hope the day never comes that a person is made a criminal for protecting his home or his neighbors home.

I am seeing more people fighting back, because they are tired of these punks causing problems. It should be that the lawabiding homeowner is not the only one scared.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by lukeache

I was wondering what people think of this story?! I honestly have mixed feelings about it. I am sure he thought he was doing the right thing but I am not sure if those burglars deserved to die. Anyways, when you are involved in some criminal activity, that is the kind of risk you are taking. It seems like under Texas law, this is absolutely legal. Comments?

I am not a legal expert by any stretch, but I do know there is a provision in the Texas Penal Code which gives a person the right to use the same force and/or deadly force in protection of anothers property as they could their own PROVIDED the latter gave the former permission to oversee their property. That is to say, if my neighbor asked me to look after his home while he was on vacation, then I would essentially have the same rights of protection I would my own home.

As to whether or not in this instance the shooter had that "justification" is not really clear by the news article.

As to the larger ethical question of whether or not the burglers "deserved to die"? That one opens up a real can of worms. Personally? I believe if the deadly force was justified, legally speaking, then, as you say, that is the risk the criminal takes. I am glad that Texas law provides that if ones home, car or business is invaded, then the presumption is that the scumbag was there to do you deadly harm, and that you have a right to use all means necessary to prevent it.

It is NOT a matter of weighing the worth of a television set, a car, or whatever against a human life. Most of us would go to any lengths to avoid such a thing. It is a matter of weighing the right to be secure in your own property and domain against the instrusion and violation. And just because somebody comes into your home with only the intention to steal, doesn't mean that, if they are surprised in the act, that they will not attack or start shooting to protect themselves.

That is why, I am glad Texas law presumes the law abiding citizen is in the right!

[lukeache]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

I am not a legal expert by any stretch, but I do know there is a provision in the Texas Penal Code which gives a person the right to use the same force and/or deadly force in protection of anothers property PROVIDED the latter gave the former permission to oversee their property. That is to say, if my neighbor asked me to look after his home while he was on vacation, then I would essentially have the same rights of protection I would my own home.

Actually, the shooter was well aware that his act would be legal under Texas law. He even knew the exact date on which the provision took effect. The Houston Chronicle left out some very important parts of the story including the fact that the shooter is 72 years old

[chris_ut]

People who choose to live civilized lives have a social contract with each other whereby they agree not to do harm to one another so that everyone can get farther in life by not having to constantly battle it out. When you do things like break into another's home you are breaking the social contract and thus are no longer entitled to an expectation that you will not be harmed by another person.

[Rose31]

Originally Posted by chris_ut

People who choose to live civilized lives have a social contract with each other whereby they agree not to do harm to one another so that everyone can get farther in life by not having to constantly battle it out. When you do things like break into another's home you are breaking the social contract and thus are no longer entitled to an expectation that you will not be harmed by another person.

I totally agree!

[Wysiwyg]

calling the police then confronting them? doesnt sound right. also if i have the upper hand and had time to contemplate i'd probably focus on aiming a little lower to maim them. but honestly I dont know how it is when youre 72

[MrSykes]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

I am not a legal expert by any stretch, but I do know there is a provision in the Texas Penal Code which gives a person the right to use the same force and/or deadly force in protection of anothers property as they could their own PROVIDED the latter gave the former permission to oversee their property. That is to say, if my neighbor asked me to look after his home while he was on vacation, then I would essentially have the same rights of protection I would my own home.

You are exactly right, but in this case, no such permission was ever given to the shooter, who rashly decided to take the law into his own hands. Looks like he might be charged for the shootings.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Rose31

I totally agree!

And I say Thank God Texas law reflects that bit of common sense!

I remember one time watching, oh hell...it might have been the "Phil Donohue" show or something (not sure, but one of the ilk)...when the topic was over the issue of how far could a homeowner go to use deadly force in protection of their own homes. The original question had to do with two kids (15 - 16 years old) breaking into a house and ended up getting shot dead.

The host tried to orient it around that, hey, they were just kids who made a mistake and should not have been killed over a VCR (or whatever).

Yeah, I agree if put that way. Sure. Not many of us would shoot a tow headed kid out for dope money over our VCR. Thing is, WE don't know at the time we confront someone in our home, exactly, WHAT they are after. It could be just the rings in the drawer....or it could be they intend to tie everyone up and terrorize and kill.

So? Bottom line? I am glad I live in Texas and not New York when it comes to this type thing!