High speed train Dallas to Houston (San Antonio, Austin: vs., mall, assessment)

[stoneclaw]

That is disappointing news.

It almost feels that anything regarding improvements for transportation options in Houston is never going to be great but just "almost good enough".

One question I have is, "Is Dallas having this problem?" Is it planning on shifting it's terminus somewhere in the fringes of the city? My guess is not, and would be a perfect example of how Houston just can't get it right compared to other cities regarding transportation options. The argument that the Galleria area is really more of a city center than downtown is not a good argument. Granted, there is a huge population center in the Uptown/Galleria but it does not speak to Houston's roots the way downtown does. Furthermore, the downtown area is developing in the more urban sense with midtown, near northside/Hardy Rail Yards, east downtown, and Buffalo Bayou Park/Montrose.

I call a BS on this one. I know we've heard this argument a thousand times, but they destroyed an entire subdivision to run 288 through and now all of a sudden, they're worried about preserving? To look at it on a brighter note, if they can think of a good solution like they mentioned in the article, such as connecting to downtown via lightrail and plus having the connection to the Uptown BRT, then it might serve both population centers for the best of both worlds. They might just have to envision plans for Northline Mall to become a mall/Grahm Central Station type of deal.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by Schumacher713

I thought this deal was dead. I just don't see it happening in a Republican controlled state. I could careless if they build it too. I think rail has its place. The northeast where there is high density. I don't see a lot of people going back and forth to Dallas. Now if it was Austin I could see people using it. Houston to Austin to Dallas. We need rail in Houston. We don't need rail to Dallas.

High-speed bullet train between Houston & Dallas gains major allies - CultureMap Houston

Harris County and Dallas County are Democratic counties of that helps

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by WRM20

Would you be willing to have the HSR run directly behind your house? I'm not, and there's no way to get to Downtown without running directly behind a number of houses, or through a neighborhood without routing along 610 and down the Hardy corridor, which would add significant time to the trip. As the FRA study said, the costs of going to Downtown are far larger than the benefits, unless you ahve an extra billion or two to pay for it.

My guess is that this never happens, due to opposition from rural interests who see zero benefit and from those who think it should go Downtown or nowhere. Both sides are misguided.

For one thing the only reason its coming into town from the northwest instead of from the north which would make a Hardy corridor route possible is because they decided to side step the route and include College Station as a stop. Forget College Station, bring it in along I-45 which was the original plan and voila you have a feasible route into downtown that avoids the more expensive Washington Corridor.

I bet they could save a few bucks by terminating the northern terminus short of DT Dallas as well, do you think they would consider that for even a millisecond? Heck no, and I say the same for Houston's terminus as well. Build the Aggie Highway beef up Hobby International and forget this HSR as far as I am concerned.

[stoneclaw]

!!!!!!!!!! EDIT !!!!!!!!!! to my above post #121.

In the last paragraph, where I said Northline Mall, I meant Northwest Mall.


They might just have to envision plans for Northwest Mall to become a transit station/mall type of deal. It could work if done right, but knowing Houston, i'm skeptical.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

For one thing the only reason its coming into town from the northwest instead of from the north which would make a Hardy corridor route possible is because they decided to side step the route and include College Station as a stop. Forget College Station, bring it in along I-45 which was the original plan and voila you have a feasible route into downtown that avoids the more expensive Washington Corridor.

I bet they could save a few bucks by terminating the northern terminus short of DT Dallas as well, do you think they would consider that for even a millisecond? Heck no, and I say the same for Houston's terminus as well. Build the Aggie Highway beef up Hobby International and forget this HSR as far as I am concerned.

The 45 route was killed earlier due to environmental concerns going through the Sam Houston National Forest. Feds agree with developer on Dallas-Houston high-speed rail route | Dallas Morning News

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

That is disappointing news.


I call a BS on this one. I know we've heard this argument a thousand times, but they destroyed an entire subdivision to run 288 through and now all of a sudden, they're worried about preserving?

Given that the clearance for 288 was completed through Riverside in 1972, I don't think you can use that as a good example. There's no way that many homes would be destroyed for a freeway now. Pictures and more info at https://1968d90e831cd27d2017897e0c81...eway_72ppi.pdf

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

!!!!!!!!!! EDIT !!!!!!!!!! to my above post #121.

In the last paragraph, where I said Northline Mall, I meant Northwest Mall.


They might just have to envision plans for Northwest Mall to become a transit station/mall type of deal. It could work if done right, but knowing Houston, i'm skeptical.

Oh so now if this turns out awkward then its Houston's fault. Nah, I say forget about it. I bet when or if they propose a HSR route through Austin and or San Antonio there wont be any doubt that the stations in those cities will be where those people want them which will be downtown regardless of the expense.

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

Oh so now if this turns out awkward then its Houston's fault. Nah, I say forget about it. I bet when or if they propose a HSR route through Austin and or San Antonio there wont be any doubt that the stations in those cities will be where those people want them which will be downtown regardless of the expense.

I understand this is a federal decision of not taking it into downtown,

But I can say it will seem that downtown Dallas will appear at being more successful in luring more projects like these to its core. Travelers will notice this and they won't care if it was a federal decision or not. They will probably more than likely blame Houston for not having it built in the same fashion, UNLESS it comes up with an alternative that's done right.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

I understand this is a federal decision of not taking it into downtown,

But I can say it will seem that downtown Dallas will appear at being more successful in luring more projects like these to its core. Travelers will notice this and they won't care if it was a federal decision or not. They will probably more than likely blame Houston for not having it built in the same fashion, UNLESS it comes up with an alternative that can be done right.

Yea well I don't think Houston is a favorite of the Feds either. They interpret the facts to suit their wants like most. And I agree with your assessment of what people will think. This will be seen as another example of how messy and disorganized Houston is with little or no thought that Houston was trying to revitalize its core but the Feds and the imperial aspirations of the good people of Dallas took precedent.

What really erks me is that Houston can do absolutely nothing else with this. You can't use the northwest mall location as a central hub to expand HSR to other cities from Houston and that I believe is really why they like the NW location so much, it inhibits any company that may want to use Houston as a hub for HSR to compete with them.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by WRM20

Would you be willing to have the HSR run directly behind your house? I'm not, and there's no way to get to Downtown without running directly behind a number of houses, or through a neighborhood without routing along 610 and down the Hardy corridor, which would add significant time to the trip. As the FRA study said, the costs of going to Downtown are far larger than the benefits, unless you ahve an extra billion or two to pay for it.

My guess is that this never happens, due to opposition from rural interests who see zero benefit and from those who think it should go Downtown or nowhere. Both sides are misguided.

There are two railroad lines where they intend to put light rail at some point. Or they could run it in the I-10 ROW, which is probably the more expensive option.

Downtown is a transportation hub. By freeway, train, bus, cab, you can get elsewhere. And downtown will be the biggest destination for business travelers. There is nothing at NW Mall.