I-45 downtown rebuild (Beaumont, Spring, Taylor: lofts, versus, move)

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by 979Texan

Lots of money to be made from more highway construction...
- Lucrative contracts
- Managed lane toll money
- Valuable real estate the city is salivating over

Suck it up, Houstonians, and bow before your government masters! This was never going to be about moving people efficiently. It always has been, and is, about money.

Thankfully I don't live inside the CoH and will avoid the city core like the plague for 10 years while this boondoggle plays out. I'll miss going to Astros games for a decade.

(Obviously the city wouldn't be paying for everything, but...) You do realize how long it would take to make back $7 billion in toll revenue, right? The Chronicle complex in the heart of the prime office district in the middle of downtown sold for around $50 million, and it took up a block and a half. The Pierce is only half a block wide, and about 14 of those half blocks are all that would be cleared for development (the western segment of i45 is planned to stay in place as localized "downtown connectors"). Doing the math with top dollar real estate prices (obviously more than the Pierce land would sell for), those 14 half blocks would net less than $250 million. Going to take a while for this get rich scheme to become profitable..

Originally Posted by bu2

Based on a traffic analysis by HNTB, the engineering firm working on the plans for TxDOT, traffic speeds along the downtown freeway system would increase by 24 mph with the proposed changes, meaning the entire network moves more people faster.

Seems pretty efficient to me..


But yeah, I agree we definitely need to invest more in alternative modes of transportation.
I dont see why we can't have underground? There are ways to seal off underground transit tunnels from storm water. Its not like people would be able to travel around town anyways if there was major flooding, so having an underground rail line temporarily closed wouldn't be a big deal.

[houston-nomad]

If all of you want more mass transit, then everyone has to stop voting for the same politicians who block it (Culberson).

[shortel]

Originally Posted by houston-nomad

If all of you want more mass transit, then everyone has to stop voting for the same politicians who block it (Culberson).

well the democrats will fix everything. for a price,and kickbacks.

[oceangaia]

Light rail is not an alternative to this project. $100 billion of light rail could never move the traffic that I-45 does and could never reach the majority of those driving into town.

But this project looks like a really bad idea. First, let's start with flooding. That buried freeway design looks like a recipe for a catastrophe not to mention completely shutting down mobility when the pumps (they will say the pumps can handle it) get routinely overwhelmed. Second, the majority of high rises and major employers are on the west side of CBD that is conveniently served by the current 45 but looks to be 20 blocks of red lights and at-grade light rail lines away from the future 45. Well, the "parkway" may feed to them from the north but what about commuters coming from the south? The big bottleneck will be the north side where 45/10/59 come together.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by bu2

They actually managed the rebuild of the Pierce ST. elevated in early 80s pretty well. It was shut down for an extended period.

It was shut down for about 45 days and there was an alternate route around the city - 45 to 10 to 59.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

It was shut down for about 45 days and there was an alternate route around the city - 45 to 10 to 59.

You sure about the 45 days? Seems like it was a whole lot longer than that.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

Light rail is not an alternative to this project. $100 billion of light rail could never move the traffic that I-45 does and could never reach the majority of those driving into town.

But this project looks like a really bad idea. First, let's start with flooding. That buried freeway design looks like a recipe for a catastrophe not to mention completely shutting down mobility when the pumps (they will say the pumps can handle it) get routinely overwhelmed. Second, the majority of high rises and major employers are on the west side of CBD that is conveniently served by the current 45 but looks to be 20 blocks of red lights and at-grade light rail lines away from the future 45. Well, the "parkway" may feed to them from the north but what about commuters coming from the south? The big bottleneck will be the north side where 45/10/59 come together.

Commuters from south I-45 generally get off at Pierce Street. Those from SW Freeway get off at the spur and drive about a mile and a half to get to the main part of the CBD. Its too much of a hassle to get through that 45/59 and Pierce St. elevated section to get to Allen Parkway/W. Dallas.

[houston-nomad]

Originally Posted by shortel

well the democrats will fix everything. for a price,and kickbacks.

If you say so.

[DSL_PWR]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

Light rail is not an alternative to this project. $100 billion of light rail could never move the traffic that I-45 does and could never reach the majority of those driving into town.

But this project looks like a really bad idea. First, let's start with flooding. That buried freeway design looks like a recipe for a catastrophe not to mention completely shutting down mobility when the pumps (they will say the pumps can handle it) get routinely overwhelmed. Second, the majority of high rises and major employers are on the west side of CBD that is conveniently served by the current 45 but looks to be 20 blocks of red lights and at-grade light rail lines away from the future 45. Well, the "parkway" may feed to them from the north but what about commuters coming from the south? The big bottleneck will be the north side where 45/10/59 come together.

Please don't disrupt a discussion like this one with facts. People don't like that.

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by bu2

You sure about the 45 days? Seems like it was a whole lot longer than that.

No I'm not sure the number 45 is exact but it was in that area. The contract was awarded to Taylor Brothers in one of the first local performance contracts where they received bonuses for early completion and penalties for late completion. It was, more or less, 30-60 days in each direction, closed in only one direction at a time.

The current method of road construction seems to be to tear up the entire freeway on both sides, including the feeders and every conceivable detour around the mess, for 15-20 consecutive miles. If I was king, contracts would require work 24/7, and completing one section before starting on another, to minimize the amount and duration of disruption to motorists.